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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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I hate learning implants. Please add learning boosters.

First post First post
Author
Dagar Bly
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-04-13 13:05:54 UTC
Don't post ideas in GD, all you get is 4 pages of "I like the way it is", sometimes more..

http://eveportraitcontest.webs.com

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-04-13 13:43:16 UTC
Dagar Bly wrote:
Don't post ideas in GD, all you get is 4 pages of "I like the way it is", sometimes more..



I agree with the OP idea of getting rid of implants. SP obsession is bad and dumping implants is a step in the right direction.

Problem was, it was really a stealth thread about BOOSTING (rather than nerfing) SP training by making the temporary +17 etc new player boosters availble to everyone as a new form of in game drug.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#83 - 2014-04-13 17:28:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?
This.

No implant has ever stopped me playing the game. If you find it stops you, then don't use them.

In fact my +5 set happens to be the cheapest clone I have and when I had time to play last, would often fly in them. Not due to the price, but simply because I couldn't be bothered to change clones.

If learning implants were removed, you would simply moan about something else stopping you playing. Plus, it is rather difficult to lose a pod in low and high sec.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#84 - 2014-04-13 17:38:41 UTC
Zappity wrote:

It is just a generally bad mechanic in that it discourages PvP. It can be worked around but why have it in the first place? Surely you want to encourage PvP rather than discourage it.


I find the repetition of this thread surprising coming from you, Zappity.

I know for a fact that implants of any type are not a discouragement for you personally to PvP.

Because you want to be out PvPing. And so you do.

Anyone that tells you that their implants 'prevent' them from PvPing is a liar.

What prevents them from PvPing is the fact that they want to build SP more than they want to be PvPing. Otherwise they would use a lesser set of implants, no implants, or would not care about losing the implants they have.

Supposedly these people 'want to PvP,' and yet they deliberately 'prevent' themselves from doing it by plugging in implants. Where is the sense in this?

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#85 - 2014-04-13 17:44:59 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
SP obsession is bad and dumping implants is a step in the right direction.


Sadly, dumping implants is not going to get rid of SP obsession.

The moment the implants go, they will start their **** about remapping.

And when remapping is gone, and everyone has the MAX_SKILLS_DURR_HURR from all those bonuses being rolled into the baseline character (because rarely do these people just want the advantage to go away, they usually want to keep/gain the bonus for free) they will start pushing even harder for SP boosters.

SP boosters that will still give the space rich and vets a decided advantage over the misguided plebes that wanted all this in the first place.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-04-13 17:54:52 UTC
How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute...
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#87 - 2014-04-13 18:02:01 UTC
you only need 2 +4 implants never a full set, skills need only 2 attributes. And that's cheap
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#88 - 2014-04-13 18:03:23 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.

Why force a decision between optimal training time and player interaction? I just don't understand this from a game design perspective.


Because +1 to +5 implants used to be the only implants there were (other than hardwiring). For a long time they only went up to +3.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#89 - 2014-04-13 18:03:44 UTC
Linna Baresi wrote:

And contrary to what one of the previous posters said, +5 implants save a great deal of training time, even when compared to +3 implants. On a one year training plan, it can save as much as 90 days.


On a one year training plan, spent sitting in those implants, yes.

When you bounce in and out of them on a regular basis, they start to lose their luster quickly.

I make one year skill plans. So that I know what I will be training this year. My current one year plan was begun on January 3rd. At that point, it was set to end on December 30th at around midnight local time. Due to time already spent in blank clones for roaming nullsec and other JC activity, it is now set to end on January 6th, 2015 at midday. I have all ideas that it will ultimately end somewhere around the 3rd week of January 2015.

These over runs are not wasted time. The reasons for the overruns (getting out of one clone and into another to partake of some sort of game play) is the only valuable time, because it was entertaining time spent playing. I don't play EVE with the skillqueue open, pawing myself with glee as the timer counts down, because that timer is so ******* awesome.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#90 - 2014-04-13 18:05:45 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute...


How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all?

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#91 - 2014-04-13 18:09:35 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute...


How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all?



Learning Skills

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#92 - 2014-04-13 19:33:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.


And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship.

Pirate sets are +3 learning too. Doesn't change the principle.


Do you think T2 and faction ships should be removed also? Why should you be forced to choose between paying more ISK and having a more effective ship? The increased loss is just a penalty and a disincentive to PvP, right?

Actually, why should ships be destroyed at all....?


your right if ships didn't get destroyed more people would pvp like in world of tanks and such since that's all that exist. Also get rid of the killboards and kbnazi's won't worry about losses and pvp more.
although not losing ships and all will cause prices to go up and Industry will become not needed

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#93 - 2014-04-13 19:35:36 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
How about just get rid of the bloody things and give EVERYONE 5 more points for each attribute...


How about we get rid of them and give no one any bonus at all?



Learning Skills


That's nice. Do you have a point you would like to make using complete sentences?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#94 - 2014-04-13 21:44:37 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I know for a fact that implants of any type are not a discouragement for you personally to PvP.

Domanique is probably referring to the time she podded me in a low grade snake set. That was a good fight although a disappointing derp at the end. These things happen!

Domanique Altares wrote:
On a one year training plan, spent sitting in those implants, yes.

When you bounce in and out of them on a regular basis, they start to lose their luster quickly.

I make one year skill plans. So that I know what I will be training this year. My current one year plan was begun on January 3rd. At that point, it was set to end on December 30th at around midnight local time. Due to time already spent in blank clones for roaming nullsec and other JC activity, it is now set to end on January 6th, 2015 at midday. I have all ideas that it will ultimately end somewhere around the 3rd week of January 2015.

These over runs are not wasted time. The reasons for the overruns (getting out of one clone and into another to partake of some sort of game play) is the only valuable time, because it was entertaining time spent playing. I don't play EVE with the skillqueue open, pawing myself with glee as the timer counts down, because that timer is so ******* awesome.

Yes, this is the correct attitude. I think a lot of people don't think this way, though. I checked my own one year queue and found a 40 day difference between +5 and a low grade set +2.

I would still like to see +2, +3, +4, +5 boosters (non-stackable with implants) but until they arrive I think I'll just ignore my +5 set unless I'm going away. I still wonder how many fights are not given because of this.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#95 - 2014-04-13 22:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Shizuken
Linna Baresi wrote:
But the whole idea of learning implants needs to be overhauled, because once you have them, it IS a deterrent to actually going out and trying things. Sure, there's jump clones, but that's precious training time lost....




This assumes that everyone should be engaging in PvP on a regular basis. There is no intrinsic authority for that position. Not everyone wants to engage in null/lowsec PvP regularly. Those people should be allowed to play as they wish, with the added risk that being podded will result in a huge ISK loss.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-04-13 22:42:14 UTC
Yay,

This thread again.

CCP has already determined what the base training rate should be. Everyone trains at least at this rate minimum.

The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.

I have spent most of my EVE time in hostile WH space. I have never used more that +3 learning implants and I have never felt my EVE experience has been diminished in any way.


Bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the implant system as it stands.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#97 - 2014-04-13 22:46:06 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:


The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.



This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#98 - 2014-04-13 22:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Shizuken
Linna Baresi wrote:


And contrary to what one of the previous posters said, +5 implants save a great deal of training time, even when compared to +3 implants. On a one year training plan, it can save as much as 90 days. That's hardly insignificant, especially to a new player.



No it doesn't. Over +3 implants on a one year timeline the difference in SP gain is 1,576,800. That is only 26 days of additional time to train at the lower +3 rate of 2,520 per hour.

Even over no implants the +5 give 3,942,000 additional SP over a year. That is only 73 days additional training at the lower +0 rate of 2,250 per hour.

Your claim of 90 days is too high.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#99 - 2014-04-13 22:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
…not to mention that, if you're really that nutty about you skill training time, you'll be running year-long +10/+4 remaps anyway so you only ever need to have two learning implants at risk (and as others have pointed out, that pair can easily be the cheapest part of your implant setup).

So…
Alyth Nerun wrote:
you only need 2 +4 implants never a full set, skills need only 2 attributes. And that's cheap
…this. That's all of 40M — probably less than the cost of the ship + fittings — and over a year you lose a whopping 788,400 SP compared to +5s.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-04-13 23:03:24 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:


The use of implants is a priviledge for those willing to spend the isk for them. They are not a right or requirement.



This is exactly correct. I know it's hard for some people to understand they aren't automatically entitled to the best of everything, but it's true.


Spend and risk the ISK.

I lost a set of CA's and +4s a few weeks back cos I got bored and went on a null roam in a faction frigate and picked a fight I shouldn't have with something way bigger and insta locking and was to slow warping away. I was like "meh just ISK" while thinking that guy is going to get a surprise when he sees the pod killmail (140 mill pod, 10 mill frigate).