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I hate learning implants. Please add learning boosters.

First post First post
Author
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1 - 2014-04-12 23:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
The Problem

My +5 learning clone is sitting in Jita. My PvP clones are sitting in lowsec. These are filled with juicy PvP implants (yes, please add me to your watch list). I have half an hour to spare but won’t be logging in for a few days after that. I do not want to jump because I will not train at the same rate over that time. I do not want to PvP in my learning implants because I am l33t. Just look at my killboard. Ahem.

Result: sometimes I do not jump. I do not get blown up in lowsec. Content is not created.

Sure, I have to choose whether I want to have some fun trying to blow stuff up or the extra skill points. I argue that this is not a good gameplay choice. Some people will choose the skill points and that reduces player interaction. Not good design.

The Solution

Add Learning Boosters to the game. These would not replace learning implants because that would make Malcanis tetchy. They would have the following qualities:

1. They would cap out at current maximum attainable attributes. I.e. adding a booster to a +5 clone would not further improve training rate.

2. They would use existing booster slots. You would have to choose between an existing combat booster and a learning booster.

3. Learning boosters would come in a variety of strengths and/or durations.

In an ideal world, they would be produced from clouds found only in lowsec. Lowsec needs some love. And swarms of Ventures.

What this is not about

- This is not about risk aversion. My PvP implants are more expensive than a set of +5s. I know how to keep my pod safe (usually).

- This is not about removing learning implants. Well, not any more. GD educated me.

This is about removing a reason to not PvP and adding new opportunities/markets/activities etc.

This was moved to F&I from GD at page 6.


Original GD post:

I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2 - 2014-04-12 23:12:27 UTC
You could just not plug in +5s. They don't save much time and you'd have less reason to not PVP.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-04-12 23:14:56 UTC
Or just get +3s they're cheap enough that if you get podded (which rarely happens in lowsec anyway) it doesn't matter
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-04-12 23:22:23 UTC
I haven't used learning implants for a very long time.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#5 - 2014-04-12 23:22:31 UTC
Or just learn how to warp away when your ship explodes...
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#6 - 2014-04-12 23:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Loraine Gess wrote:
Or just learn how to warp away when your ship explodes...

I use other implants in my PvP clones. I know how to warp away.

Most of the time.

It is just a generally bad mechanic in that it discourages PvP. It can be worked around but why have it in the first place? Surely you want to encourage PvP rather than discourage it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-12 23:26:27 UTC
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-04-12 23:30:22 UTC
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.


And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#9 - 2014-04-12 23:31:14 UTC
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.

Why force a decision between optimal training time and player interaction? I just don't understand this from a game design perspective.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2014-04-12 23:31:38 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-04-12 23:32:51 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.

Why force a decision between optimal training time and player interaction? I just don't understand this from a game design perspective.


Risk vs reward.
Actions have consequences.
Diminishing returns on investment.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#12 - 2014-04-12 23:33:00 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.


And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship.

Pirate sets are +3 learning too. Doesn't change the principle.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#13 - 2014-04-12 23:34:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

I DO risk implants. Very expensive ones. But they still don't train as fast.

Listen, there are ways to work around it. I understand that. I just don't understand what this adds to the game. It is a horrible mechanic that works against the other things CCP is trying to achieve.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-04-12 23:35:44 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

I DO risk implants. Very expensive ones. But they still don't train as fast.

Listen, there are ways to work around it. I understand that. I just don't understand what this adds to the game. It is a horrible mechanic that works against the other things CCP is trying to achieve.


Oh no my skills aren't training as fast. I'm ruined.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-04-12 23:36:03 UTC
Zappity wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.


And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship.

Pirate sets are +3 learning too. Doesn't change the principle.

Well, you can either learn to not die, or get used to not having +5's. The latter comes into play if you fail to apply the former.

I haven't had anything that is not a Slave Set for well over a year now, and I don't regret it. My pew is worth much more than the few days I could save in a year long period.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2014-04-12 23:36:30 UTC
Zappity wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.


And if you are going to spring for +5s just get a low grade pirate implant set and have some fun. Only a little more expensive and it provides real, tangible, boosts to your ship.

Pirate sets are +3 learning too. Doesn't change the principle.


Do you think T2 and faction ships should be removed also? Why should you be forced to choose between paying more ISK and having a more effective ship? The increased loss is just a penalty and a disincentive to PvP, right?

Actually, why should ships be destroyed at all....?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2014-04-12 23:37:20 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

I DO risk implants. Very expensive ones. But they still don't train as fast.

Listen, there are ways to work around it. I understand that. I just don't understand what this adds to the game. It is a horrible mechanic that works against the other things CCP is trying to achieve.


No it isn't.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#18 - 2014-04-12 23:38:41 UTC
+5s are in the clone I use when real life keeps me from playing the game for a while.

I view them as an added benefit for that purpose only. Otherwise my 3s work just fine.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#19 - 2014-04-12 23:47:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

I DO risk implants. Very expensive ones. But they still don't train as fast.

Listen, there are ways to work around it. I understand that. I just don't understand what this adds to the game. It is a horrible mechanic that works against the other things CCP is trying to achieve.


No it isn't.

Explain please. I don't understand how this supports the goal of increasing player interaction. If you are talking risk vs reward that could also be achieved by boosters which would be destroyed when podded.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-04-12 23:49:57 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days. The problem is that when I have time to log in for half an hour I never want to jump back to lowsec for some pew because of the training time loss over the next few days. So someone, usually me :), doesn't explode that day. Stupid, I know, but there you go.

Get rid of learning implants. They just discourage PvP. I'd love to see them replaced with learning drugs of different levels and durations.


So what you're saying is that because you don't like risking implants, I shouldn't be allowed to benefit from risking mine

Unplug all your implants and play the game. Problem solved, no?

I DO risk implants. Very expensive ones. But they still don't train as fast.

Listen, there are ways to work around it. I understand that. I just don't understand what this adds to the game. It is a horrible mechanic that works against the other things CCP is trying to achieve.


No it isn't.

Explain please. I don't understand how this supports the goal of increasing player interaction. If you are talking risk vs reward that could also be achieved by boosters which would be destroyed when podded.


I find it amazing how some players handicap themselves and become slaves to the skill que. Nothing is preventing you from interacting with others except yourself.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

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