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[news] Caldari Navy confirms attack on border region staging facility

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2014-04-11 22:29:11 UTC
Disturbing news from the navy today. Were any of you present for the initial engagement, or was it entirely station-side?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#2 - 2014-04-11 22:39:41 UTC
Well, that came out of nowhere. Speculation on the source?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#3 - 2014-04-11 22:57:46 UTC
Heth's whereabouts are still unknown; this could be the same party as seized him. Alternatively, this could easily be a Guristas raid; they certainly possess the pilots, the inside information, and the technical ability to pull off a raid of this style. However, I suspect the navy would be quick to identify Guristas if it came down to it. Failing that, Provist recalcitrants? Another faction we've not seen yet?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#4 - 2014-04-11 23:10:04 UTC
Well, I don't see this ending well.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Nuona
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-04-11 23:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuona
So the perpetrator:

  • was able to engage in a prolonged firefight with the Caldari Navy, but
  • was motivated by a desire to minimize casualties and/or collateral damage, because
  • they used non-lethal riot-contol agents, which
  • are probably only legitimately available to State security entities

Theft of billions in military hardware notwithstanding, it seems like they tried to maintain as sympathetic a posture as possible under the circumstances.

To me, this motivation is much more intriguing than the means.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#6 - 2014-04-11 23:24:01 UTC
Executor Heth's last known moments in High Security State space were in Otsasai. He fled to low-security space from that system and has not been seen to return since. The system was initially used as the staging ground to pursue him into low-security space.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#7 - 2014-04-12 00:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Guessing our boy might still be around then. Much as I don't like Provists, their MO would include minimal loss of life among fellow Caldari. I'm betting we'll see those ships again soon...

And anyone who wants the peace talks to continue just might consider relocating some assets closer to, or within, Federal space. Something tells me the timing isn't coincidence, and we've all seen how "unbreachable" CONCORD security is.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-04-12 00:11:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
They hi-jacked entire carriers? Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent. I'd imagine something like this is hard to do unless it was security team skip night or something.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Calairis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-04-12 00:16:59 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent.

Or complicit.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#10 - 2014-04-12 00:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
They hi-jacked entire carriers? Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent. I'd imagine something like this is hard to do

Not as hard as you might think, Fred. Load up some blockade runners (which are scan immune and running legit IDENT) with assault teams, gear, and prize crews, dock up, disperse gas, neutralize any security that you have to, take what you want. A single transport can hold thousands of troops (more over short durations), and you don't need a full crew to just fly something like this away. Just man the bridge, and the key engineering stations, and you can walk off with a ship... You won't be conducting flight deck or combat operations, but you can navigate just fine. Lockouts can be hacked, and non critical systems can be bypassed.

As for anyone being complicit... Honey, I guarantee you, if anyone was, and it's uncovered, they'll wind up with a slug in their head.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-04-12 01:21:44 UTC
You make it sound so easy. For an op to go that smooth demands a lot of planning, significant intelligence and plenty of practice runs, not to mention the failure of several safety systems.

All of which points to infiltration for my money, especially given the less-lethal MO. In which case the infiltrator almost certainly left with their real employers.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-04-12 01:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Agiri Falken wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
They hi-jacked entire carriers? Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent. I'd imagine something like this is hard to do

Not as hard as you might think, Fred. Load up some blockade runners (which are scan immune and running legit IDENT) with assault teams, gear, and prize crews, dock up, disperse gas, neutralize any security that you have to, take what you want. A single transport can hold thousands of troops (more over short durations), and you don't need a full crew to just fly something like this away. Just man the bridge, and the key engineering stations, and you can walk off with a ship... You won't be conducting flight deck or combat operations, but you can navigate just fine. Lockouts can be hacked, and non critical systems can be bypassed.

As for anyone being complicit... Honey, I guarantee you, if anyone was, and it's uncovered, they'll wind up with a slug in their head.


Sure its certainly feasible, but I'd imagine reinforcements would arrive in time. These carriers are the size of cities, especially the Wyvern. Unless the tens of thousands of crew members were in on it, this would be difficult to pull off without being slowed down or identified.

And that said, sure, maybe these guys accounted for everything. But surely a heist of this scale can't be pulled off without their identities being revealed. Odds are one crew member was able to send a transmission.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#13 - 2014-04-12 01:54:54 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
They hi-jacked entire carriers? Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent. I'd imagine something like this is hard to do

Not as hard as you might think, Fred. Load up some blockade runners (which are scan immune and running legit IDENT) with assault teams, gear, and prize crews, dock up, disperse gas, neutralize any security that you have to, take what you want. A single transport can hold thousands of troops (more over short durations), and you don't need a full crew to just fly something like this away. Just man the bridge, and the key engineering stations, and you can walk off with a ship... You won't be conducting flight deck or combat operations, but you can navigate just fine. Lockouts can be hacked, and non critical systems can be bypassed.

As for anyone being complicit... Honey, I guarantee you, if anyone was, and it's uncovered, they'll wind up with a slug in their head.


Sure its certainly feasible, but I'd imagine reinforcements would arrive in time. These carriers are the size of cities, especially the Wyvern. Unless the tens of thousands of crew members were in on it, this would be difficult to pull off without being slowed down or identified.

And that said, sure, maybe these guys accounted for everything. But surely a heist of this scale can't be pulled off without their identities being revealed. Odds are one crew member was able to send a transmission.

Inside job? Either way, it's going to be an interesting next couple of days.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#14 - 2014-04-12 01:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
They hi-jacked entire carriers? Either these guys are crazy powerful or the Caldari Navy is completely incompetent. I'd imagine something like this is hard to do

Not as hard as you might think, Fred. Load up some blockade runners (which are scan immune and running legit IDENT) with assault teams, gear, and prize crews, dock up, disperse gas, neutralize any security that you have to, take what you want. A single transport can hold thousands of troops (more over short durations), and you don't need a full crew to just fly something like this away. Just man the bridge, and the key engineering stations, and you can walk off with a ship... You won't be conducting flight deck or combat operations, but you can navigate just fine. Lockouts can be hacked, and non critical systems can be bypassed.

As for anyone being complicit... Honey, I guarantee you, if anyone was, and it's uncovered, they'll wind up with a slug in their head.


Sure its certainly feasible, but I'd imagine reinforcements would arrive in time. These carriers are the size of cities, especially the Wyvern. Unless the tens of thousands of crew members were in on it, this would be difficult to pull off without being slowed down or identified.

And that said, sure, maybe these guys accounted for everything. But surely a heist of this scale can't be pulled off without their identities being revealed. Odds are one crew member was able to send a transmission.


First, so we're clear, I'm not arguing with you here, Fred. Merely presenting the viewpoint of someone who served in SPECFOR, and trained both to plan and execute operations like this.

The reinforcement angle depends on a few factors; whether comms were cut beforehand, or subverted. And whether there were crews at all. If they were in dock, they'd be on skeleton crews, I'd imagine. Maybe even vacated for maintenence. Under those conditions, it's as simple as subduing anyone in the critical sections, and locking anyone else in place until you're well away. Also, I'm guessing that any local reinforcements, such as dock security, were already neutralized by the gas, or assault teams.

But, to be fair, the article is a little short on those details, so it could be either or.

In the end, these sorts of ops aren't about flying a ship at full capability, but merely controlling it. No maintenence crews, deck crews, fighter pilots, or any other slots would be filled. Man the helm, comms, and sensors, and get some guys to monitor the reactors. Call it a few hundred per ship, to run a few other systems, and you've got enough crew to fly a baseline carrier for a few hours. Not fight, not use... Just fly a simple course. I hear about you and yours flying without crew over short durations. Similar concept. All they need to do is get them somewhere to take on a full crew, which could have been waiting in system for all we know.

Lets say you have a reason to want a full crew though... Fill the aforementioned transports to the brim, and send several. Those things are, as you know, big empty cans with engines. Put enough seats in one, and you've got Carrier Crew in a Can. I've never seen a theft this big... But it has been planned and scenarios run, both in simulations, and exercises aboard actual hulls... It's more than feasible. It's downright scary.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#15 - 2014-04-12 01:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Stitcher wrote:
You make it sound so easy. For an op to go that smooth demands a lot of planning, significant intelligence and plenty of practice runs, not to mention the failure of several safety systems.

All of which points to infiltration for my money, especially given the less-lethal MO. In which case the infiltrator almost certainly left with their real employers.

You'll note, Hakatain-haan, that I never said "easy" (Not as hard as you'd think equating to "more doable than most believe") or spur of the moment. You can bet your first born child that this has been in the works for a good while, and pre-op setup would be essential. I figured it went without saying, so I didn't say it, was all. I could sit down and work out all the contingencies, but honestly, I know you're an intelligent man who can fill in the blanks in whats said. I agree completely that somebody (or a lot of them) was definately there beforehand to make this work.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-04-12 06:44:18 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Heth's whereabouts are still unknown; this could be the same party as seized him. Alternatively, this could easily be a Guristas raid; they certainly possess the pilots, the inside information, and the technical ability to pull off a raid of this style. However, I suspect the navy would be quick to identify Guristas if it came down to it. Failing that, Provist recalcitrants? Another faction we've not seen yet?

Hero Tibus Heth is dead now.

As for "other faction", how about it being, say, Ishukone, who infiltrated Navy facility and sold ships to their Gallentean masters? Eh?
It definitely was an inside job, since breaking into Navy facility without internal help is practically impossible.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#17 - 2014-04-12 09:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
As others chimed, it'll be an interesting few days. While Gurista's can surely pull this off, I doubt they're involved in this, they're usually more brazen and care less about limiting loss of lives. Pulling this off would make them smug as hell.

To whom it could be, it's unknown for the moment, but we best keep eyes open, because the timing & location does leave some unpleasant suggestions open.
While Heths whereabouts and status are not fully accounted for, the Dragonaurs are still around. Such move would help them boost their clandestine operations greatly.

On the infiltration theory with Blockade runners. I often fly them myself, transporting people. They can easely accomodate 2000 Marines or specialized military ops personnel, so it's certainly a feasable theory. However, despite being unscannable by capsuleers, Custom Police forces can scan right through it. This is shown when you travel with illegal goods, the Custom Police can override the scan immunity and arrest & fine you on the spot.
That does mean they had to be careful around gates, or keep the cloak running, the less highsec gates passed the better.


Edit: The report says they jumped the stolen ships into Lower Tribute Region, anyone familiar with that place? Can shine some light on the attackers.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#18 - 2014-04-12 10:06:22 UTC
The ships had to have been uncrewed, undergoing deep maintenance. Possibly they were undergoing decontamination, thus would not have been crewed at all, not even a skeleton crew.

But surely they would have been in cold shutdown, which would have taken a while to restart all the power systems, to get underway.

News said there were no fatalities or abductions, so...

I expect the situation to be resolved in no more than 4 weeks.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-04-12 10:42:21 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
You'll note, Hakatain-haan, that I never said "easy" (Not as hard as you'd think equating to "more doable than most believe") or spur of the moment.


Fair enough, that you didn't.


AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-04-12 10:55:38 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Executor Heth's last known moments in High Security State space were in Otsasai. He fled to low-security space from that system and has not been seen to return since. The system was initially used as the staging ground to pursue him into low-security space.

In fact, it was Aivonen solar system, where he with his fleet fought against Sansha's incursion headquarters.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

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