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CCP: Swallow your pride, speed up progression for new players.
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Muestereate
Minions LLC
#61 - 2014-04-11 19:01:52 UTC
I don't know, I liked when you started out about 800000 and picked your races and tribes to drop right into what you wanted to do. I find it excruciating to train noobs through the first couple months.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-04-11 19:59:37 UTC
One word

No

Skills are only part of the equation. Learning to fit, to fly, to fleet are all essential. Being able to fly a bling fit anything too early = tears.

Skill training gives you goals and things to look forward too. Plu you can fit and go pvp on day one - join RvB or Hero or EvE Uni

All of them will start you in frigates...which 3 years down the road I fly more and more because they are hella fun.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2014-04-11 20:02:34 UTC
If the game is too hard as it is, please go away and find an easier game. Nobody in this community wants the instant gratification crowd infesting yet another good mmo and boat-anchoring it with terrible ideas.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#64 - 2014-04-11 20:03:21 UTC
Iwas just passing by, I wasnt going to look in at all but I caught that sentence;

Diamond Zerg wrote:

There's about 3-4 months where a new player cannot fit a competitive PvP cruiser.


LELWAT

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-04-11 20:03:45 UTC
Train Minmatar frigate 2. Train Propulsion Jamming 2. Train Small Projectile Weapons to 3. Now go buy a Slasher, and have fun.

[EDIT: This can be done on day 1]

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-04-11 20:13:23 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
ARGH, CCP FIX EVE SO IT HAS AN EASY MODEOopsOopsOopsOops.



OP, you are forgetting a couple of major things:

A. With the ship/skill rebalance training into most ships got a LOT easier and quicker. So in general, new players looking at ship "x" are actually at an advantage over the people that had to train them in the old way. *cough* I had to train BS 5 for my carrier, not the ****** 3 it is now.

B. New players don't have to spent 1.5 month training learning skills to get to the attributes they start out with now.

C. Only a select amount of skills apply to a ship. Just because you have a veteran with 200mil SP, if both you and him are flying a frigate, he is as good as his frigate skill is, that battleship skill will NOT help him a single bit.

D. Uhm, you can do PvP while training that alledged 3 - 4 months for a cruiser, just pick something called a frigate...

E. I've seen 2 week old people join RvB, go out and fight and WIN. One of said persons actually made a nice "blog" about it in NCQA (too bad he stopped with it AFAIK).

F. Read THIS. Now, next time before you start your little whine threads, do your freaking research...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#67 - 2014-04-11 20:27:45 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I wonder how many will fall for this obvious trollthread,
even when I mention that it's an obvious troll thread.

I'd love to write a scientific paper about the mindlessness of people.



Dudet your face!!! P



I like Soup.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#68 - 2014-04-11 20:29:03 UTC
Proper troll thread.

10/10

Lmao.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Solecist Project
#69 - 2014-04-11 21:18:10 UTC
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I wonder how many will fall for this obvious trollthread,
even when I mention that it's an obvious troll thread.

I'd love to write a scientific paper about the mindlessness of people.



Dudet your face!!! P



I like Soup.
Finally you recognize me! :p

You didn't even respond to my evemail!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#70 - 2014-04-11 21:22:46 UTC
Didn't a thread that said exactly this just get locked like 20 minutes ago?
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-04-11 21:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Erufen Rito
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I’m not usually the type to call out gaming companies with my forum posts. This time I’m going to.
CCP is a very successful, clever and virtuous gaming company. But they do make mistakes.

Foremost among their mistakes is the power gap between the brand new player and the seasoned veteran.
There's about 3-4 months where a new player cannot fit a competitive PvP cruiser.
3-4 months, which is nothing compared to the years upon years the vets have had to hone their abilities.
3-4 months, which seems massive to new players.

I cannot overstate how discouraging a wait of this period is to prospective new customers.
They look at the state of the game and think "Wow, four months before I can even be effective? And then lets say I want to stop brawling with my Gallente ship and start kiting, I'll have to wait another two or three months to try that!?"

Explain to me, what entitles you, a new player, to be on the same level as me, a 3 year old player? Or the inverse. Why should you be rewarded for being new, where I'm not?

Diamond Zerg wrote:

Now, most of the skill progression in EVE is balanced. CCP have done a wonderful job in letting the average age characters compete with the very old ones. No one wants the training time for a supercapital or titan reduced.

However, the first three months of the new player's game play should be radically overhauled.
Players should start with all the skills needed to fly one race's well fit t1 frigates and cruisers.
From there, they can decide what secondary ships and weapons systems they want to train to become more versatile— or simply go up in size with their primary race.

I don't agree with this point at all, and honestly, it feels like you are trolling at this point. Part of it, because having "all of the skills required to fit well t1 frigates and cruicers" is ludicrous. Why not just remove the skills all together, and have the bonuses of said skills hard coded onto the hulls?

Diamond Zerg wrote:

The common argument against this is that it devalues the power of veterans.
But when you consider things carefully, 3-4 months is almost nothing to experienced players. In fact many of the skills we want to train take upwards of a month to complete anyway.
In the past 4 months, I have trained for T2 siege, Recon V, and perfect T3 cruisers of all 4 races. Tell me again it's "nothing".

Diamond Zerg wrote:

No, giving new players this level of starting SP would hardly affect experienced players.
But it would greatly affect new players. Many more people who try EVE for the first time would be retained and become paying customers.
In turn, this makes New Eden a more fun and exciting place for players like myself who have been around for a while.

It actually doesn't. It simply means newer, more inexperienced players can fit a ship propperly, but probably wont anyway because they are new and inexperienced. And in the odd event that they manage to fit a propper cruicer, they will most likely lose it, because any "vet" who can pvp, knows to overheat. And since overheating is not a fitting skill, and the practice of overheating is not taught, but learned, you have once again lost to a vet player.

And I just named the first iteration of this line of thought that came to mind, which incidentally, comes to show it's not about SP, but about individual game knowledge when it comes to PVP.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#72 - 2014-04-11 21:30:25 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Didn't a thread that said exactly this just get locked like 20 minutes ago?


Well, it is an unwritten rule of GD that "should one thread fall, two more shall rise in it's place."

Hail Hydra?

Shocked

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-04-11 22:14:22 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I wonder how many will fall for this obvious trollthread,
even when I mention that it's an obvious troll thread.

I'd love to write a scientific paper about the mindlessness of people.


As you, too, post in a troll thread.

I, too, would also love to write a scientific paper about the phenomenon of knowing something is a troll thread but posting in it anyway.

mfw your bottom
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#74 - 2014-04-11 22:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Diamond Zerg wrote:
There's about 3-4 months where a new player cannot fit a competitive PvP cruiser.
Meanwhile they are getting chewed up by other new players that spent less time training T2 frigs (e.g. AF, Interceptor etc). Why not just start everyone out with BS skills? or cap skills and a free cap every time they pod back to station?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#75 - 2014-04-11 22:17:03 UTC
I read nothing in this entire thread.

I agree with OP.

Not today spaghetti.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#76 - 2014-04-11 22:20:30 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Foremost among their mistakes is the power gap between the brand new player and the seasoned veteran.
There's about 3-4 months where a new player cannot fit a competitive PvP cruiser.
3-4 months, which is nothing compared to the years upon years the vets have had to hone their abilities.
3-4 months, which seems massive to new players.


Why do you want to start out of the gate flying a competitive PvP cruiser?

Why not fly fast or heavy tackle frigates? The other guys you fly with need tackle in order to have targets to shoot.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#77 - 2014-04-11 22:20:53 UTC
Chad Ramsbottom wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I wonder how many will fall for this obvious trollthread,
even when I mention that it's an obvious troll thread.

I'd love to write a scientific paper about the mindlessness of people.


As you, too, post in a troll thread.

I, too, would also love to write a scientific paper about the phenomenon of knowing something is a troll thread but posting in it anyway.


Well, one could argue that posting in a troll thread, as a troll, you would simply be group trolling.

In this case, we are group trolling the other guy who threadnaughted his troll.

And because lock was imminent there, this lovely thread was created to continue the "discussion."

I need to write a scientific paper on "Trolling Mechanics in E:O GD."

Blink

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#78 - 2014-04-11 22:24:53 UTC
Progression is already sped up for new players.

Heck, reasonably sure that brand new capsuleeers get more free starter skills than they ever did before.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-04-11 22:53:49 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Whiny Stuff...

Play something else...
Solecist Project
#80 - 2014-04-11 22:56:50 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Chad Ramsbottom wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I wonder how many will fall for this obvious trollthread,
even when I mention that it's an obvious troll thread.

I'd love to write a scientific paper about the mindlessness of people.


As you, too, post in a troll thread.

I, too, would also love to write a scientific paper about the phenomenon of knowing something is a troll thread but posting in it anyway.


Well, one could argue that posting in a troll thread, as a troll, you would simply be group trolling.

In this case, we are group trolling the other guy who threadnaughted his troll.

And because lock was imminent there, this lovely thread was created to continue the "discussion."

I need to write a scientific paper on "Trolling Mechanics in E:O GD."

Blink
Stop being meta, that's my thing alone! lol

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia