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What are wormholes, and why are they dangerous?

Author
Quarra Shepard
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#1 - 2014-04-11 12:04:26 UTC
I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-04-11 12:07:55 UTC
Wormholes aren't dangerous; their residents are.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-04-11 12:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Daniel Plain wrote:
Wormholes aren't dangerous; their residents are.


Wanted to post that first.

But yeah...

WH are a good source of ISK. But the time I spend in WH it felt like I was the only person in it for days. Other times there were bubbles and fighting going on 24/7.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Forumata Altaris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-04-11 12:17:47 UTC
Quarra Shepard wrote:
I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?


I'd say the risk comes in three main forms:

* Other players.
* Entrance closing behind you / not having scanners and being stranded inside.
* Sleepers (NPCs).

The NPCs and navigation you can learn and adapt to. Other wormhole dwellers however are a bit more tricky, at least as a "non-permanent resident" if you will (especially as a new player).

Granted, my experience is very limited and based around shorter exploration visits. There are far more knowledgeable players who can, I'm sure, go into more detail.

However, when you talk about whether or not it is worth it - I'd say yes. Both in terms of the ISK you could make, but also just for the adventure itself. Going into a WH chain and just making it out alive has been one of the most exciting things I've done as a new player in this game. Would highly recommend!
Lemon Nado
The Circus Corp
#5 - 2014-04-11 12:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lemon Nado
Just go.... Space pixels.... you can't die... Be adventurous.

Take a ship, scan a wormhole, mark the spot, fly back, grab a shuttle and go sightseeing.

Don't warp to close when you want to check out anomalies (green lines in scanner, rather right click and warp to 100km).

And if there is a resident.... they might leave you alone because a shuttle is such an odd thing... Or they are happily giving you a quick ticket home... Where you can start again. Don't forget to write YYYYAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR into the local channel when someone is about to "send you back". That shows the right attitude! Pirate

Don't sit in front of a wormhole OR Lowsec OR Nullsec and don't venture there because it's full of closet monsters.

If you have an anomaly somewhere close and you don't know what it's about... Leave your ship at home, fly your pod right into it. The NPC's don't shoot at pods. You can take fun selfies with NPC pirates...

Go explore....

And visit the wormhole forum. Maybe someone is kind enough to give you a tour. Happened before.

Hmmmm....actually.... newbie wormhole tours.... A new business.... I'm onto something...

;)
Lemo

PS: Leave your comfort zone once in a while!

PPS: Maybe you will find the wormhole with that link to the Jovian areas! The holy grail of the wormhole community! Cool
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2014-04-11 12:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy

Seriously though, the residents, both NPC and player, of wormholes are fiercely territorial. The NPC AI is brutal, so is their firepower and tank. The players themselves don't take kindly to visitors, wormholes tend to encourage a very specific set of skills, ones that involve scanning stuff down very quickly; which they will use to hunt you down and violence your space canoe, and your pod. If you get caught your corpse will end up being a plaything.

The best advice for anyone daytripping into them is to have a probe launcher and probes fitted, and to bookmark everything, especially your exit

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-11 12:23:41 UTC
WH is for the experience, the lifestyle. There is no other area in EVE that can provide the same.

Really theres 3 way of utilising them:

-Live in one, different nabouring systems everyday, no local intel channel - THE POS EXPERIENCE
-Use them as gateways from one area to another (i.e. get your heron, drop in a wormhole and find a nullsec exit, go hack some cans and go back to sell your loot in highsec)
-Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites)

The money in a wormhole is from the sleepers, although I hear PI is pretty ludicrous too (I don't know enough about PI to tell you). You salvage the sleepers wrecks for the real $$$.

Just assume you're always being watched in a wormhole, and keep ontop of Dscan like a super paranoid dude and you will be fine.. until one day the proteus whos been watching you from day one thinks you've grown fat enough to eat.

I disagree

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2014-04-11 12:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
SKINE DMZ wrote:
Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites)
You used to be able to solo most C3 sites in a Drake, haven't tried to do it in a couple of years though

Quote:
The money in a wormhole is from the sleepers, although I hear PI is pretty ludicrous too (I don't know enough about PI to tell you). You salvage the sleepers wrecks for the real $$$.
Melted Nano-Ribbons... yum. The PI is pretty damn good, the corp I was in used to fuel our own POS from it and sell the considerable excess to our alliance; at one stage I think we were fuelling around 5 alliance POS's with everything but ice products (pre fuel block) from our lowly C3.

Quote:
Just assume you're always being watched in a wormhole, and keep ontop of Dscan like a super paranoid dude and you will be fine.. until one day the proteus whos been watching you from day one thinks you've grown fat enough to eat.
Pretty much this.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Saulius Adoudel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-04-11 13:14:59 UTC
Bull****,get inside wspace,say hi in local and im sure you'll get a warm greeting from the residents
Quarra Shepard
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#10 - 2014-04-11 13:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Quarra Shepard
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy


I could have gone the whole day without seeing that, thanks for creeping out my night....


I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#11 - 2014-04-11 13:46:02 UTC
Quarra Shepard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The main danger in wormholes is that you might become this guy


I could have gone the whole day without seeing that, thanks for creeping out my night....


I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's?

Sorry about that, it's the Eve version of being Rickrolled Evil

In answer to your question, yes the NPCs are dangerous, the players even more so.

This pic just about sums up the various areas of Eve, it won't require eye/ear/brain bleach either

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-04-11 15:40:51 UTC
Quarra Shepard wrote:
I wast aware that Jovian systems or encounters were possible in Eve. So pretty much every WH is dangerous with players or NPC's?


Jovians not so much. The danger is not in the wormhole, or in the wormhole systems. It's the mechanics of wormholes.
A wormhole system does not have gates and the only way to get in (our out) is through a wormhole. Wormholes will close after a certain amount of time or if a certain amount of mass (ships) traveled through. A wormhole is only warpable when you have a bookmark or if you scanned it with probes. So, if it closes and you don't have scan probes with you, bad luck for you.

Local chat in wormhole systems is in delayed mode. So, you don't know who is in the same system with you. You're only tool to see if you are alone or not is directional scanner. Ofcourse, if someone is cloaked you will not see them on d-scan. Since wspace is -1.0 security, there is no concord to save you from attackers. Usually, every other player you encounter is wspace will shoot you on sight and then call his friends to shoot you to. Be prepared :)

NPC's in wspace (sleepers) are generally smarter then other NPCs, and use more types of ECM such as neuts, but soloable in lower class wh systems.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-04-11 15:52:54 UTC
Wormhole people are people too. They are just people that are likely to kill you first and talk later.

If you're interested I would encourage you to poke your head in with a cheap ship and see what it's all about. You're likely to die, so be prepared for that:

1. Update clone
2. Bring probes (fly a heron, magnate, imicus, or probe)
3. Always bookmark both sides of the wormhole (once you warp away you need a way to get back quickly!)

Don't warp to the sites as the NPCs will murder a scanning frigate (ore sites and data/relic have npcs as well!). If a player murders you, say hello and perhaps they'll give you some tips (private convo - using local in WH space is a no no).

I recently wrote up a Wormholes 101 post which has plenty of info if you are interested in WH diving.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-04-11 16:49:00 UTC
While the previous posts are good if you have a specific question I will be happy to talk in depth with you about being a while dweller and having interactions with wh's on multiple levels since their introduction.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2014-04-11 16:50:23 UTC
Quarra Shepard wrote:
I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?


This is a risky game. Just undocking can get you dead.

The people who tell you to stay out of WH space are not the type of people that should be giving advice. Like anything else in the game it just requires knowledge to partake in any particular mechanic.

Knowledge gained painfully by just jumping on in ( can be fun) or hooking up with someone that can show you the ropes.

As mentioned above the WH forum is a good place to start.

Mr Epeen Cool
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-04-11 19:38:51 UTC
Quarra Shepard wrote:
I am told of wormhole exploration, that it is sometimes profitable, but risky. How do i begin, better question yet, is it worth it?


Step one is learn to scan. If you can't find the way in you will never find the way out.
Step two is try and always have probes so you can find a new way out if needed.
Step 3 is get a passive tanked drake (sleeper often neut) google the site u want to run (for triggers)
Step 4 dscan every 3-5 seconds.
Loot and most importantly salvage everything (the melted nano ribbon are salvage).
As a new player i lost ships but made a billion in my 1st month doing wormholes. (i did the scanning /looting/ salvaging for the first few weeks)

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#17 - 2014-04-11 19:55:37 UTC
I'm going to throw my opinion into this mesh too:

1. WH's are not the huge isk / hour that some folk feel they are (with a few notable exceptions).
A. Exception: You live in a C5 or C6 wormhole and run capital escalations.
B. Exception: You find an awesome for PI, and train 2-3 accounts worth of alts to farm the PI. (There are some impressive C1 holes for this)

I'd like to also elaborate on that: I live in a C2. When I run solo C2 sites, not including POS fuel expense from living in the wormhole, I can make substantially more isk safer running L4 missions. Even when I form a fleet and farm our static we can make more isk / hour independantly running L4s. The teamwork, risk, and interesting fights that happen in wormholes is what keeps me there.

For a daytripper (i.e. you don't live in a wh): If you solo daytrip, your better off planning like you're going to do low null sites, and just jumping into WH's you scan down on the way to your destination. Planning to make money on the WH's that spawn in K-space is not optimal. Day tripping is tough, because you never know whether you're going to find a C1 or a C5 until you're at the entrance of the WH. C2 sites are going to be hard for a new player to solo (combat wise).

2. You can make decent money in a C1 - C4.
A. If you live in a C2 or C4 - you make your money 'farming' your static. I.E. you go in, try to make sure no-ones home, and run sites while spastically checking D-scan.
B. If you have a low / null C3 (static wh for that wormhole) you could make money by running into low / null doing exploration and running sites. With a Null exit logisitcs can become painful (in my opinion).

3. WH's are dangerous. Because of their residents, and because of the timing and capabilities of the NPCs. I've seen plenty of new explorers warp to our data site in an imicus because they don't realize there's a sleeper spawn waiting for them. They generally leave in their pod if they remembered to bookmark the WH exit. The NPCs are tough, and require either good planning or teamwork. Preferrably both. WH residents are devious and will ancher bubbles, camp system exits, log off and wait for you to attack their miner (then log back in), or spend days cloaked in your system learning your habits and gank a transport ship. WH's are a patience game; a long con.

4. Your life blood is scanning, bookmarks, and warping to other folk in fleet - if you happen to be out of corp. Without a robust set of bookmarks - life is hard.

All that aside, I strongly recommend you jump into WH life. It's the most fun I've had in EvE.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#18 - 2014-04-12 04:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Check out this subforum and feel free to start asking questions on threads etc. Usually, so long as you have checked the search function and the stickied threads first people are relatively helpful and always happy to help a new player out.

Alternatively, dive right in, if you lose your ship and pod, find out who did it and private convo them. Most people are happy to talk and answer questions (based on previous experience).

One of the most important things you can do in W-Space is bookmark both sides of the hole. Never forget to do that. Another thing is always carry the following:

- A probe launcher.
- Two sets of probes. (This is because if you're scanning and you DC, sometimes the probes tend to disappear completely).
- A cloak. Always handy to have one of these.

What with the addition of Mobile Depots in this game, this makes it incrediably easy to refit in space and you should never be left without the ability to scan yourself out. There is no excuse for people to be lost in WH's with that deployable in game.

Get good at scanning. This means train the scanning skills up and get used to using the probe scanner and you'll be able to scan down sigs with relative ease.

As previously stated, it's not the wormholes that are dangerous it's the wormhole inhabbitants who sometimes you don't know are there until it is too late. However that being said you will want to know what type of hole you are in as soon as possible. What class is the hole (C1-C6) and does it have any effects? (For example taking an armour ship into a Pulsar will reduce your armour tank). So whilst it is the inhabbitants that are the problem, knowing your surrounding is a big thing. There are several sites that you can place the J number into such as Wormhol.es (currently there might be an issue with this site going offline soon), or using tripwire.
Another danger is the Sleepers. The NPC AI that are found in wormholes. They are much tougher than regular NPC's so be wary. A C2 combat site can be solo'd with a Drake whose pilot has good skills in tank and weapons, but it can be slow work.

Head on over to the Wormhole Subforum (linked above) and check it out.

You also might want to check out some of the following posts too:

FAQ for Wormholes. (read this).
Wormhole Fundamentals by Adhocracy. This guide is so helpful! As it is also in video format there is visual reference.
The Complete Unknown. Slightly outdated (by two expansions) but still useful in some aspects.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

Ne'Rubis Tanthalas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2014-04-12 07:31:29 UTC
SKINE DMZ wrote:

-Daytripping, take a T1 Battlecruiser and go murder some sleepers (I would only attempt this in a c1/c2, although a drake will probably handle some c3 sites)


Some C5 data sites can be cleared in a properly fit drake
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-04-12 12:32:21 UTC
they are fun places to be
not all wormholes are the same, they can have an effect that changes how your ship performs
what works well in one can be terrible in another

if you don't chat, you don't get listed on 'local'
your scanning skills are important

read this


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