Crime & Punishment

For a small corp that only has 1 mining fleet, so only needs to rent 1 system, cloaky campers can really mess things up if you are not free to move to a deserted system. The ability for tiny corporations to work toghether with others could make lowsec renting a good place to start and maybe grow their ranks.

I really don't know how I missed this gem of a thread until right now.

Let's do a quick rundown of the basic problems I see here:

Zero reason person you're paying isk too won't just run off with it.

No benefits of having the security of your own station. Want to stop reds from docking in your station? Too bad. Oh, and don't engage them first, the NPC sentry guns no one owns will shoot at you.

Space you cannot upgrade, nor can you stop people from just running whatever anoms/sites you're trying to run anyway.

If you are somehow stupid enough to pay for "renting", and violate your agreement, what are they going to do, lock your stuff in a station they can't control? Kick you out of the sov they don't own? Prevent you from renting offices?

Dozens of entities with POSes in many systems in Khanid, all of which can use them to stage and kill you.



A better solution would be to not pay anyone and just live there because no one can stop you.

Do you want to know why people don't rent lowsec? Because it's stupid to try and rent lowsec.

If you're insistent on paying someone to live in space though, just pay for you own system with several nullsec power blocks that you all know but I won't mention since I'm not going to pitch another service in this thread. At least then you get security, better space in every category, and stations with actual controlled access. Oh, and we can actually enforce our own sov claims. You can literally get everything you could possibly want, and with prices VASTLY below what this snake oil thread is trying to pitch you for. Systems are available (with stations) for 2b or less in some cases, with vastly less PVP traffic and superior PVE economics in every category.

Since you started off with it -- I really don't care about your standings. The moons are back in N3, so I got what I wanted. Your insistence on trying to contact our diplos is just amusing, along with your comment about talking to vince (lol). Your conversations might be getting ignored because we simply don't care.

I'll refute your first point again:

1) The reason a legitimate rental alliance (Such as Northern Associates, or our CFC counterpart) doesn't run off with your isk is because there are 800b/month of renters already living in space (which we own) and if we started robbing people that would pretty quickly dry up. You guys, on the other hand, have no enforceable claim, nor any collateral (other than a dubious reputation as a lowsec pirate alliance). Think of squatters walking into an abandoned building and then charging rent to other squatters. No one owns it, and the other "tenants" have as much right to be there as you do.

2) Even if you try to engage reds on a station, they can just dock and play the same station games you do. Again -- you can't lock anyone out of stations because you don't own them. They can use all the industry slots, clone bays, market, and undock and dock freely because you really can't do anything to stop them, and you only have dominance in ONE of the three major timezones.

3) You are correct that lowsec has it's own set of benefits, and all of them in general are vastly inferior to nullsec. If people are going to pay you to live somewhere, they aren't doing it in the "spirit of exploration". They're doing it to make money.

4) You can attempt to attack orbital assets, but again -- the level of control you exercise is minimal. But this is kind of a moot point because you can do 90% of activites from the numerous NPC stations in the area. It's not as if you need intensive refining arrays, and there are plenty of industry slots. And since there is no sov, it's not as though people will be anchoring CSAAs.



My post really wasn't a personal attack, your ad hominem is really presented only because you can't truly refute my points.

The bottom line is that lowsec is not really controllable in any true sense. You can offer people the illusion of safety -- but that's really all it is. It's the same reason that alliances "live" in NPC null, but don't really "own" it. Faction Warfare space and the milita that take part in it are the only thing that comes close to sov null. And even then -- FW provides money far in excess compared to what lowsec can provide otherwise.

Bottom line -- if you're going to rent space, rent it from a legitimate entity that actually holds it.

PS -- I'm sorry we couldn't be friends as well. If you're interested in working together in the future though we have most of Impass that needs renting and I'm sure we could work something out for you and yours.

Again -- all you can hope to refute me with is your own misguided opinions based entirely out of a sense of unwarranted self importance.

I have pretty effectively demonstrated that what you're attempting to do here lacks merit in almost every regard. If people insist on giving you their isk anyway that's their choice and their mistake to make.

You can attack me personally, based on your own misconceived notions all you wish -- I really don't care.

At the end of the day you're trying to pitch people on the idea of paying you to live in lowsec, while people can see the obvious benefits of null -- which is why tens of thousands already rent there.

I would compare Khanid to EVEnews24, and sov null to TMC. Writers (I mean renters) have a choice in where they live, and they choose TMC (I'm sorry, "nullsec") almost every time, because they know where the quality is.

And with that, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

You have a good point and you are an idiot.
Your good point is renting in Low sec is a stupid idea. You are an idiot because you seem to think that it is fun to rent from the massive hordes of 19 year old kids in N3/PL and CFC.

SOV mechanics in modern eve have made it so a moderate size alliance can no longer hold sov. You have to pay hommage to one of the two guys that run EVE.

NULL SUCKS BALZ! RENTING IS WORSE! There is little content available in player held Null Sec and for what there is available the overlord alliances full of **** lords will milk it for all it is worth.

Renter corporations and alliances will go around 6 months of renting to discover this then cut ties and ditch no richer than they would have been grinding in high sec.

You are right however in that Low sec Renting is a joke. Low sec belongs to the NPC Faction that lives there. You low sec alliances that got booted out of Null or absorbed into one of the big boys need to all man up and start taking SOV.

I know for a fact that if you all cause problems across the borders of N3/PL and CFC space they will stop gloating stop boasting and start losing.

Besides.... Isn't the death of CFC N3 and PL what we all want???
Don't we all wish to see Mittens and Graths posts vanish???
**** Half of their own people including their highest leadership want to see them die, and they cannot maintain a relationship with someone for lng without encouraging threats on each others real lives. I believe that they define the word "**** lord".

If we are all in agreement about this then we should all pick one system and start with the gorilla warfare and make Null sec into the colorful mishmash of incredibly diverse groups of awesome players that it has been many times before.

And to SYJ.
If yer gonna do this go to Venal. Much quieter and the constellations are ideal for this stupid idea.

I always find it particularly piquant when nullbunnies try to proclaim 0.0 space as some sort of "end game"... especially segments like :



Because uber-carebearing is what EVE is all about?

Oh, and when is the last time you looked at the NPC station que's in lowsec? They arent short. 30 days to make copies.... yeah..

I know im nobody special, but +1 to SYJ for an innovative idea. If they can keep this going, good on them.

Any time there is a unique or different idea presented, you'll have the "old school crowd" that feel they need to discredit it before it even takes full effect. But again, the motivations for this have been touched upon.

I support it. Im not an alt....

Not at all. Just pointing out things, and eve players on average have trouble with long post. So I am just summing it up for them, being the nice guy I am.

After a bit of research I support this idea....

Do me a favor..
Don't call it rent. Makes me cringe.
And that is probably the reason for the massive amount of outbursts from older players on this thread. If you consider each contributing member you recruit to be actually that... A member... Meaning a member of an elitist group with a purpose. You lose the demeaning feel pressed on all renters within the CFC, PL and N3.

On top of that strive to incorporate some other forms of payment for your renters.
Leave isk as an option but SRP management, Moon management, Numbers in Cap fleets, All kinds of Logistics and support should be considered and make sure your pvp guys are not running the low sec complexes and gas/data sites, as leaders in the groups you recruit will need those sites to keep their general population happy.

It is a very strange idea all together but with the lack of content (Fun content.. Stop kicking the dead horse let it be dead.) in Null sec I think some of the older players in the game may take you up on this. And if so this will become more popular. That is your target customer here. Bitter vets that don't have the time required for Null sec and are looking for a fun environment in an area where the skills they already have can be put to use.

There is no more risk than there is in Null sec only different risk. Vet players with more experience would benefit from such arrangements in the same way they do with wormholes and development in these parts of eve will only bring advancements by CCP to help those players in development of their game play.

I for one can in-vision several smaller more effective coalitions taking regions all over eve in this manner pulling people to their own brand of game play. The unique difficulties may require a different skill set and different game play but would provide more fun than the current renting situation under the **** lords.