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The "Poor" Phoenix Dread :(
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#41 - 2014-04-11 22:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
And wouldn't that speed be sufficient to mitigate a large chunk of the phoenix's damage?


No. In fact an Avatar moving at it's full speed of 75 m/s would mitigate exactly none of the Phoenix's damage.

Also, a question for you;

Where did you get this idea?

As a follow up question;

Do you not have access to EFT?


I asked a question in a discussion forum where I knew people knowledgeable about the subject were posting. The question was relevant, and seeing as no one had actually tossed any numbers around, resulted in someone else (you) putting at least one number on the field.

No, I did not have access to EFT, at the time of typing that I was in traffic on my way to a meeting. And it seemed like good information to have in a thread such as this one.

Thanks for your reply, it told me exactly what I wanted to know. Blink
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-04-11 22:45:19 UTC
People get confused by things like explosion velocity and think that the game starts taking away from your damage as soon as you go above that number.

Doesn't work that way.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-04-12 00:46:46 UTC
The "supercaps can speed-tank citadel missiles" nonsense comes up in every single Phoenix thread. Straight

The blap Phoenix thing is a result of the readily predictable damage of missiles and the massive volley damage. It's a nice trick and it shouldn't really be a surprise to people, but I don't think it's a practical fitting strategy for common use. Using Rigours instead of SMCs cripples the tank in small fights, leaving you significantly inferior in damage and tank to a Naglfar, while in large fleet fights the delayed damage is awkward to deal with. And, frankly, with that amount of painter and web support the other dreads can do the blap game pretty well too, particularly in larger fights with multiple dreads where you can't get under everyone's guns. So I think it's a nice trick but it doesn't make the ship good or give it a role. Against other capitals, it just doesn't do enough damage to justifty use, despite the tank.

Also, I don't really understand this attitude that the Phoenix is the best anti-structure dread. It has better damage in the 45-55 km window than a dual-TC Moros or dual-TE Naglfar, sure, but that hardly matters if you're just plonking dreads down at 35 km to hit a tower. It only seems to be an advantage if you just want to sit in one place while shooting POS defences. What?
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#44 - 2014-04-12 00:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And if he could do it in a Phoenix he could do it better in any other dreadnought.
Only an idiot says it's impossible, but the equations don't lie - capital missiles aren't good for hitting subcaps.


While this isn't untrue, it isn't the whole story. ALL capital weapons are bad at hitting subcaps.

Gun dreads however have tracking to deal with, and when you're sitting on an undock (i.e very short range), even under webs and paints, a gun dread will simply miss every single shot it takes. The Phoenix however, never misses, it simply does reduced damage, and even if you reduce the damage it does by 95%... well 5% of 130,000 is still 6,500 damage per shot.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, if you're going to be brawling other caps the Phoenix is a decent option. Probably better than the Revelation. It's certainly better for structure shoots.

Oh by the way, the Revelation sucks too.


The Rev doesn't suck, you're just using it for things that is isn't the best choice for.

The Rev has the lowest DPS for the gun dreads at close range. move the range farther out and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start getting shot, and it's tank advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start being neuted, where it's cap advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad.

But yes, if you're at <30km ranges shooting a target that isn't moving, while not being shot or neuted yourself, the Revelation is the worst dread.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-04-12 09:55:06 UTC
Paikis wrote:


The Rev has the lowest DPS for the gun dreads at close range. move the range farther out and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start getting shot, and it's tank advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start being neuted, where it's cap advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad.

But yes, if you're at <30km ranges shooting a target that isn't moving, while not being shot or neuted yourself, the Revelation is the worst dread.


I'm not seeing this either, unfortunately. Comparing a dual-TE Naglfar with a dual-TC Moros and dual-TC Rev indicates that both Moros and Naglfar outdamages and outtrack the Rev at all ranges.
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