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EVE: the Game you Wait to Play

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#621 - 2014-04-11 18:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Karak Kashada wrote:

Thanks for a thoughtful response. I agree that EVE is not for me, but not for the reasons you cited. One thing I would point out in your post that resonates is the mention of time. And I was clear in my OP about time. I have no problem with the difficulty and harshness of EVE. That was one of the biggest draws, initially. But I the pilot-progression mechanism simply dissociates from the value of my in-game time to a degree that I find unavoidably dissatisfying. Hence, my post. All these talking heads who are throwing around their suggestions and "help" never grasped the OP in the first place, and are being played like cheap harmonicas. Well, at this point they are. In the beginning it was all straight up (on my part, anyway). But you can only push a person so far.


You are walling out of the game by yourself.

You don't need to waste more than 2-3 days to do amazing stuff.

In many sandbox MMOs and expecially in EvE, the limit, the factor that makes the game bad, is you.

You forge your destiny, you guide your path. You can do it by learning how take advantage of every perk you get over time or you can sit down and cry, Waiting for Godot and for 100M skill points that in reality won't make you an inch better.

YOU forge your future... or your failure.

There are absolute bads who can make gobs of money and even pew pew in FW and they fly cheap stuff.

Maybe try getting yourself informed about the posibilities you have and you ignore, instead of going to the forums.

Or, go to the forums and ask for advice, you'll get plenty.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#622 - 2014-04-11 18:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Jenn aSide wrote:

If you're smart



Like this guy gets to determine what is and isn't smart.

Typical posting by jenna side. Insults followed by self-propagating justification of said insult, followed by more insults with more words to gift wrap and bow the insults.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#623 - 2014-04-11 18:45:03 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

If you're smart



Like this guy gets to determine what is and isn't smart.

you know, you don't have to post in the forums

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#624 - 2014-04-11 18:45:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:

Quote:
I know mission running pve players are seen as second class citizens in eve but let me explain what i mean by bars. I can comfortably level 2 missions, i have the standings and isk for level 3 and 4 missions but don't have the skills to fly a drake. What do? Should i be forced into something else that inevitably requires more training in a different direction or should i log out for a month until my skills finish?
You should keep running L2 missions, since presumably this is something you enjoy doing if you look at L3s as something interesting. If you don't enjoy them, you won't enjoy L3 missions either because they're the same thing, and in that case, you shouldn't train towards them.

So the alternatives you list aren't really the ones you should be looking at. Instead, it's “should I try something else?” (which requires very little time) or “should I keep doing what I enjoy?” (which requires no time). In the latter case, you may eventually gain access to L3s and can start doing those. Hell, you could even try to be cheeky and try them without the Drake and look at it as a challenge, which is fun exactly because you're “not ready”. In the former case, by the time you've read up on what you're trying to do, your first couple of L1 skills should be done and you can start dabbling in whatever it is you've picked.

[quote]How does playing help me get from my baseline to my goal?
It helps you gain the assets needed for that goal. It helps you gain the know-how needed to not fail spectacularly on your first outing. It helps you build a support network that will let you overcome challenges you haven't foreseen. Above all, it helps you decide wether the goal is worth pursuing to begin with.


I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#625 - 2014-04-11 18:45:42 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Again another post laden with insults stating I'm unintelligent.


I'm not saying you are unintelligent. I am saying you're not nearly as smart as you think you are, which is why even though you've been on the forums for s short time you have a larger bounty than I do, and i've pissed off everyone here from Tippia on down at least once lol.

Quote:

I prove you're lying and your only response is "you don't know what a lie is." without proving how it wasn't a lie.

The majority of my grandstanding has been in regards to morality and how people treat each other. The few instances where I addressed the new player experience wasn't necessarily "wrong", just an opinion that you failed to agree with and chose to insult me over instead of acknowledging that I can have a different opinion than yours.


1st, thakn you for admitting it was merely grandstanding.

2nd, what you said was offensive, so i responded in kind. The fact that you don't understand that how you post is offensive tells us a lot about your problem. People dopn't argue with you because they are mean, they aregue with you because your posting style and manner is ODIOUS in the extreme.

Quote:

Even your opinion of the OP's post is just that, an opinion. Granted, while you "can" do stuff, the stuff you "can" do might not even be particularly enjoyable for him. Aren't we suppose to research stuff? Research in EvE doesn't stop at the stuff you can do upon day 1. In fact, you're encouraged to pick a long term training path and towards a long term objective. Which means that everything you do from day 1 should be in support of some how supplementing your reaching your long term training goal. In the mean time, since everything you're doing is overshadowed by the "one day" you get to do it, the stuff becomes pale in comparison.

You stating he's "wrong" is not a fact, it's simply yours and others opinion that he's wrong. But he can't be entirely wrong because in the realm of possibility within EvE, there will always be something you can't do, that you might want to do, until you've waited long enough to be able to do it.


Now you go and read his post where he says himself that he is not suited to EVE. My 'opinion' just turned into hard fact lol.

That was the point all along. Rather than understand that his choices and lack of knowledge were the problem (until the end), he posted this scathing screed against EVE online, something many of us find annoying and something you (Divine) have done yourself. I'm simply point out the truth of the matter. Sorry if you don't like it.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#626 - 2014-04-11 18:46:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

If you're smart



Like this guy gets to determine what is and isn't smart.

you know, you don't have to post in the forums


neither do you
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#627 - 2014-04-11 18:47:00 UTC
Holy fuckballs!!!

32 pages?

Thought these issues were addressed by like page 7.

Banked on the wrong possible threadnaught.

Dammit.

*Sigh*

Roll

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#628 - 2014-04-11 18:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CETA Elitist
bump
Duncan Ringill
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#629 - 2014-04-11 18:47:54 UTC
The OP's is a valid opinion. It can take a year or two to get really good at EVE, or to get good at enough things to discover what it is you want to get really good at. That's what the game has grown into, and no doubt it's an important reason why subscriptions aren't really growing.

What has always made the difference for me has been the people I fly with, and if a new player hasn't made those magical connections, the steep learning curve and the cold, harsh environment offer few other rewards. Sure, there's ninja salvaging, and maybe a lot of players enjoy that. You can always attempt solo ganking or missioning...but when I read the OP, I think "lonely." You don't HAVE to be really good at much if you've got buddies to fleet with, and even they don't need high SP counts for much fun to be had.

EVE's got a lot of very welcoming players. Brave Newbies and Eve University beckon, among others, but a player just learning the game may not know how to approach these, and may not have the luck I did to have fallen in with good gangs.

http://badwrongfun.org
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#630 - 2014-04-11 18:49:26 UTC
CETA Elitist wrote:
cruisers can handle level 3's just fine actually. Probably won't in most cases be efficient, but it's not too difficult.
The same goes for Battlecruisers, it's totally possible to run lvl 4's in them if you know what you're doing, it's not optimal, but it's certainly doable.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#631 - 2014-04-11 18:49:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I bolded the important part. That's what I've been saying. You aren't the type to enjoy EVE, yet you spent the time to make a trash post about it as if it were all EVE's fault that you aren't the type to enjoy it. Thus the reaction to your OP.
But my OP was not a trash post. It expressed a negative opinion, but it was grounded in personal experience and fact. And it closed with a clear disclosure of why it had been written. And it acknowledged that it was personal choice that I was leaving. Go look. What followed my OP was the trash.

Jenn aSide wrote:
I knew what EVE was about and some of how it worked before I downloaded it. I didn't come to it thinking "it's an mmo , I've played MMOs, thus I can play and enjoy EVE" as it seems you did. You've wasted 4 months of your time by not doing your research, then wasted even more time with this post.

I offer this sincerely: If you're smart you do some soul searching, asking yourself why that happened to you and putting the blame squarely where it belongs, on you. That way, you won't waste your time in the future on games that go against your entertainment needs and wants.

Freak. One second you're rational and the next you're just like these other jackasses who can't open their mouths without thrusting assumptions onto other people.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#632 - 2014-04-11 18:50:22 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Holy fuckballs!!!

32 pages?

Thought these issues were addressed by like page 7.

Banked on the wrong possible threadnaught.

Dammit.

*Sigh*

Roll

Tip: Don't quit your day job for a career in gambling.
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#633 - 2014-04-11 18:53:35 UTC
OP should totally just leave.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#634 - 2014-04-11 18:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Kashada
Organic Lager wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:

Quote:
I know mission running pve players are seen as second class citizens in eve but let me explain what i mean by bars. I can comfortably level 2 missions, i have the standings and isk for level 3 and 4 missions but don't have the skills to fly a drake. What do? Should i be forced into something else that inevitably requires more training in a different direction or should i log out for a month until my skills finish?
You should keep running L2 missions, since presumably this is something you enjoy doing if you look at L3s as something interesting. If you don't enjoy them, you won't enjoy L3 missions either because they're the same thing, and in that case, you shouldn't train towards them.

So the alternatives you list aren't really the ones you should be looking at. Instead, it's “should I try something else?” (which requires very little time) or “should I keep doing what I enjoy?” (which requires no time). In the latter case, you may eventually gain access to L3s and can start doing those. Hell, you could even try to be cheeky and try them without the Drake and look at it as a challenge, which is fun exactly because you're “not ready”. In the former case, by the time you've read up on what you're trying to do, your first couple of L1 skills should be done and you can start dabbling in whatever it is you've picked.

[quote]How does playing help me get from my baseline to my goal?
It helps you gain the assets needed for that goal. It helps you gain the know-how needed to not fail spectacularly on your first outing. It helps you build a support network that will let you overcome challenges you haven't foreseen. Above all, it helps you decide wether the goal is worth pursuing to begin with.


I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.

Dude, didn't you hear? You can run those level 3 missions in a T1 frig! You don't have to wait for a bigger, better ship! That's an illusion. Just give yourself a little shot of testosterone, loop the tops of your tightie-whities around your ears, don your Neo sunglasses and barrel on in with guns blazing! If you can't do that and wipe 30 to 40 rats without your shields dropping past 95%, you're doing it wrong. Or you're not EVE material. Or both.

{blink blink}
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#635 - 2014-04-11 18:57:22 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

If you're smart



Like this guy gets to determine what is and isn't smart.

you know, you don't have to post in the forums


neither do you

True, however I wouldn't be saving myself "insult" after "insult", you would benefit considerably more.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#636 - 2014-04-11 18:58:19 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CETA Elitist wrote:
cruisers can handle level 3's just fine actually. Probably won't in most cases be efficient, but it's not too difficult.
The same goes for Battlecruisers, it's totally possible to run lvl 4's in them if you know what you're doing, it's not optimal, but it's certainly doable.


Without support and proper weapon skills? Not optimal is an understatement.

And how does a low sp player increase optimization? That's right, the heart of the issue, they wait for that timer to tick, forever waiting and waiting and waiting.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#637 - 2014-04-11 18:59:05 UTC
CETA Elitist wrote:
OP should totally just leave.

After you, my dear.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#638 - 2014-04-11 19:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Organic Lager wrote:
I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.

Your forward progress will in large part be paid off ahead of time since you're gaining a sense of what difference each step along the way makes. And as others have mentioned, you can run L3s without the BC just fine — it may cost you more money to do so, but the L2s you have run and are running will help you with that bit. Your lower ship class is generally better made up for by flying than by fits and equipment — it's part of what lets you take seemingly weak cruiser-sized ships into L4s and L5s and spank them silly (the missions that is, not the ships). You will learn about the L3 triggers in the same place you learn about the L2s: on eve-survival, so your L2s have already given you the knowledge URL you need.

Basically, instead of learning everything you need to know about L3s after you've gained access to L3s, you can learn it long before that point. Thus, your progress is greatly quickened. And we'll set aside that the time difference in opening up an L3-capable BC compared to an L2-capbable cruiser is measured in hours… after all, you submitted that it was a slightly contrived example from the outset.

Karak Kashada wrote:
Dude, didn't you hear? You can run those level 3 missions in a T1 frig!
You can, as it happens. It's a hell of a way to actually make L3s fun. Also, while not strictly necessary, it's a fun thing to do in groups of 3 or 4.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#639 - 2014-04-11 19:04:24 UTC
Everyone who chose to tell the OP how he is wrong without personally contacting him through private messages to offer him an opportunity to experience "fun" with you, while stating that his opinion is wrong and insulting him is a hypocrite.

You state that he chose to make a forum thread where he aired his grievance without knowing all of the possibilities that were available to him so he may enjoy his time, but then on the same hand you, instead of reaching out to him and showing him exactly what potential exists, chose to make a forum post where you aired your grievance about his having his opinion.

You're hypocrites.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#640 - 2014-04-11 19:07:35 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Everyone who chose to tell the OP how he is wrong without personally contacting him through private messages to offer him an opportunity to experience "fun" with you, while stating that his opinion is wrong and insulting him is a hypocrite.

You state that he chose to make a forum thread where he aired his grievance without knowing all of the possibilities that were available to him so he may enjoy his time, but then on the same hand you, instead of reaching out to him and showing him exactly what potential exists, chose to make a forum post where you aired your grievance about his having his opinion.

You're hypocrites.

did you know that if you google "define [word]" it tells you what the word means