These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EVE: the Game you Wait to Play

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#241 - 2014-04-11 06:31:05 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
To the OP.

The issue that yourself and other people have when they first playing Eve is they get fixated on a certain ship and believe until they have skills required to that ship they are unable to go anything else.
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.

Prince Kobol wrote:
This is totally wrong.

I would advise to fit what frig you can with T1 mods and just go out there find a fight.
Why do you assume that I have not?

Prince Kobol wrote:
Yeah you will probably die a ton of times but with each fight you will learn something new and gain experience and as your skills grow not only will you be able to fly more ship with better fits, but you will have gain experienced so when you do start to fly your shiny new ships you wont be losing every 5 seconds
That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#242 - 2014-04-11 06:32:29 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:

But don't, for a minute, try to pawn off the idea that such a player would ever choose to spend six months of game time doing those other things, were his "journey" to piloting a black-ops battleship actually determined by his direct investment toward such! He'd never set foot in mining vessel! He'd never see the inside of a trading hub! He'd never, ever, subject himself to the inane hacking mini-game! Ever!

This is a good example.

If and when that pilot gets his black ops, the journey he took to get there will vastly sway the outcome. For instance: If he was a miner by trade, he will be sorely disappointed. Having never been in a proper pvp corp with proper pvp fleets he will drop his mighty black ops battleship on a prophecy ratting in nullsec. The prophecy will light a cyno, and all his hopes and dreams will be for that blops will be violently crushed.

If, on the other hand, the would-be black ops pilot joined a pvp corp, his combined experience from various solo and fleet action would tell him that the prophecy languidly ratting in the belts was almost certainly bait and he would find a better target.

Whatever your goal, the journey you take to get there will vastly effect the outcome of your pursuits, I guarantee it.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#243 - 2014-04-11 06:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Karak Kashada wrote:
That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.

Bullshit. T1 Hauler vs T1 Battleship.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#244 - 2014-04-11 06:37:13 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
That I have correctly summarized the pilot-progression mechanics in EVE has been validated by numerous other posters. It is a consolation, at least, that some EVE players have not drunk the kool-aid, but are willing to embrace the bad with the good.

Ah, so because a small minority of the posters in this thread agree with your position, they must be correct and your own position validated. Flawless logic. Roll
On what basis is the correctness of your position founded?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#245 - 2014-04-11 06:39:46 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
On what basis is the correctness of your position founded?

Click the link above your post.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#246 - 2014-04-11 06:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Kashada
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.

Bullshit. T1 Hauler vs T1 Battleship.
I believe the video you posted proves my point quite nicely, as the first comment on the page shows:

"That is the worst/best thing I have ever seen. Clearly someone that trained up to fly a BS with absolutely NO secondary skills or knowledge of how to play. Sad/good."

Oops. Took that shiny new ship out without training the weaps/mods needed to make it worth a hill of beans.

Seriously. If you were trying to contest the point I was making, you did the exact opposite.
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#247 - 2014-04-11 06:44:29 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.


*Face desk*

What the hell is it you want to do then, and how the hell does it make it wait to play? -.-

I know we sound like broken records here, but maybe a little explanation on what you want from eve so we can try and point you in the right direction. Most of the content in this game is player driven, and those that aren't don't require months of training like you seem to think it does. About the only things that require that are capital ships and why the assumptions that's what you are after...
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#248 - 2014-04-11 06:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Karak Kashada wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.

Bullshit. T1 Hauler vs T1 Battleship.
I believe the video you posted proves my point quite nicely, as the first comment on the page shows:

"That is the worst/best thing I have ever seen. Clearly someone that trained up to fly a BS with absolutely NO secondary skills or knowledge of how to play. Sad/good."

Oops. Took that shiny new ship out without training the weaps/mods needed to make it worth a hill of beans.

Seriously. If you were trying to contest the point I was making, you did the exact opposite.

Nice. You copy pasta'd a completely unsupported youtube comment. Good show.
Here's another:

1 Arbitrator vs 5 Blops, 1 Arazu, and a Nemesis
Spoilers: The lone arbitrator (T1 cruiser) kills 2 of the blops and the arazu.

I s'pose you'll tell me the entire blops fleet had no support skills either? Lol
Edit: Just to re-emphasize your original statement:
Karak Kashada wrote:

You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships.

T1 Cruiser. 5 T2 Battleships + Adds. Go on, rationalize it. I'll wait. Roll
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#249 - 2014-04-11 06:54:05 UTC
Quote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.

Karak Kashada wrote:
I don't recall being dissatisfied with my performance in the game.

Karak Kashada wrote:
That's just it. I don't find EVE to be much fun.

So you are not dissatisfied with not having fun, and you know it is your own fault.

/thread
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#250 - 2014-04-11 06:57:57 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.


*Face desk*

What the hell is it you want to do then, and how the hell does it make it wait to play? -.-

I know we sound like broken records here, but maybe a little explanation on what you want from eve so we can try and point you in the right direction. Most of the content in this game is player driven, and those that aren't don't require months of training like you seem to think it does. About the only things that require that are capital ships and why the assumptions that's what you are after...
Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months. And it goes up from there. And that's just to get the bloody ship, to say nothing of the training times for appropriate fittings. It doesn't matter a bit what my plans are, or those of any other player—you're going either do something else in the meantime, or you'll just come back when your skills are ripe.

Now I don't have a problem with the time it takes. I believe that the price to pay for a thing should be commensurate to the ground you gain by acquiring it. I am simply bored by (not "bored of") EVE's pilot-progression mechanics.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#251 - 2014-04-11 07:03:15 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months.

Because T2 ships are so important, I mean it's not like any T1 cruiser ever took on 5 T2 battleships and won.

No, T2 dominates eve, not player piloting skill. Roll
Victor Andall
#252 - 2014-04-11 07:09:50 UTC
OP CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF?

Just kidding you have no stuff.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2014-04-11 07:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyrun Mangeiri
Karak Kashada wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.


*Face desk*

What the hell is it you want to do then, and how the hell does it make it wait to play? -.-

I know we sound like broken records here, but maybe a little explanation on what you want from eve so we can try and point you in the right direction. Most of the content in this game is player driven, and those that aren't don't require months of training like you seem to think it does. About the only things that require that are capital ships and why the assumptions that's what you are after...
Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months. And it goes up from there. And that's just to get the bloody ship, to say nothing of the training times for appropriate fittings. It doesn't matter a bit what my plans are, or those of any other player—you're going either do something else in the meantime, or you'll just come back when your skills are ripe.

Now I don't have a problem with the time it takes. I believe that the price to pay for a thing should be commensurate to the ground you gain by acquiring it. I am simply bored by (not "bored of") EVE's pilot-progression mechanics.


So CCP changes the system, you play a month for 24/7, doing whatever it now takes to learn the skills (I guess running something for exp?) and can now fly a T2 with Officer Fitting. Now what?

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#254 - 2014-04-11 07:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Kashada
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.

Bullshit. T1 Hauler vs T1 Battleship.
I believe the video you posted proves my point quite nicely, as the first comment on the page shows:

"That is the worst/best thing I have ever seen. Clearly someone that trained up to fly a BS with absolutely NO secondary skills or knowledge of how to play. Sad/good."

Oops. Took that shiny new ship out without training the weaps/mods needed to make it worth a hill of beans.

Seriously. If you were trying to contest the point I was making, you did the exact opposite.

Nice. You copy pasta'd a completely unsupported youtube comment. Good show.
Here's another:

1 Arbitrator vs 5 Blops, 1 Arazu, and a Nemesis
Spoilers: The lone arbitrator (T1 cruiser) kills 2 of the blops and the arazu.

I s'pose you'll tell me the entire blops fleet had no support skills either? Lol
Edit: Just to re-emphasize your original statement:
Karak Kashada wrote:

You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships.

T1 Cruiser. 5 T2 Battleships + Adds. Go on, rationalize it. I'll wait. Roll

My hypothetical was a combat ship improperly fitted. You have not disputed the futility of that hypothetical, but have instead introduced a hypothetical of your own which purports to prove a perpendicular point—mods aren't everything...a point which I have not argued one way or the other, and which is not relevant to my point.

Wait if you want, but you will be waiting a long, long time. It would be better to form a proper, direct counter-argument.
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#255 - 2014-04-11 07:19:08 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.


*Face desk*

What the hell is it you want to do then, and how the hell does it make it wait to play? -.-

I know we sound like broken records here, but maybe a little explanation on what you want from eve so we can try and point you in the right direction. Most of the content in this game is player driven, and those that aren't don't require months of training like you seem to think it does. About the only things that require that are capital ships and why the assumptions that's what you are after...
Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months. And it goes up from there. And that's just to get the bloody ship, to say nothing of the training times for appropriate fittings. It doesn't matter a bit what my plans are, or those of any other player—you're going either do something else in the meantime, or you'll just come back when your skills are ripe.

Now I don't have a problem with the time it takes. I believe that the price to pay for a thing should be commensurate to the ground you gain by acquiring it. I am simply bored by (not "bored of") EVE's pilot-progression mechanics.


Last try then I'm going to lose it...

YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN DO IN A T2 SHIP IN A T1 SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!111!

There is no real pilot progression here, there also isn't an end game here either. Your end game is whatever you want it to be, but as you work towards that end game, doesn't mean you cant participate in your chosen field. It just makes you a little less efficient at it, and sometimes player skill makes up for that skill point discrepancy. Guess what You aren't gaining player skill by playing the "Skill queue game" either. You only get that by actually playing the game.

But I have the distinct feeling that I'm wasting my breath with you...
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#256 - 2014-04-11 07:22:25 UTC
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
No, sir, this is not describe me. I am perfectly aware of all that I could do. I simply do not want to do it.


*Face desk*

What the hell is it you want to do then, and how the hell does it make it wait to play? -.-

I know we sound like broken records here, but maybe a little explanation on what you want from eve so we can try and point you in the right direction. Most of the content in this game is player driven, and those that aren't don't require months of training like you seem to think it does. About the only things that require that are capital ships and why the assumptions that's what you are after...
Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months. And it goes up from there. And that's just to get the bloody ship, to say nothing of the training times for appropriate fittings. It doesn't matter a bit what my plans are, or those of any other player—you're going either do something else in the meantime, or you'll just come back when your skills are ripe.

Now I don't have a problem with the time it takes. I believe that the price to pay for a thing should be commensurate to the ground you gain by acquiring it. I am simply bored by (not "bored of") EVE's pilot-progression mechanics.


So CCP changes the system, you play a month for 24/7, doing whatever it now takes to learn the skills (I guess running something for exp?) and can now fly a T2 with Officer Fitting. Now what?

Ah, another poster who completely misses the point. Try again?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#257 - 2014-04-11 07:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Karak Kashada wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Here's another:

1 Arbitrator vs 5 Blops, 1 Arazu, and a Nemesis
Spoilers: The lone arbitrator (T1 cruiser) kills 2 of the blops and the arazu.

I s'pose you'll tell me the entire blops fleet had no support skills either? Lol
Edit: Just to re-emphasize your original statement:

My hypothetical was a combat ship improperly fitted. You have not disputed the futility of that hypothetical, but have instead introduced a hypothetical of your own which purports to prove a perpendicular point—mods aren't everything...a point which I have not argued one way or the other, and which is not relevant to my point.


I introduced no hypothetical. I introduced an api-verified fight that actually happened.

This fight, and others like it, disprove your assertion that you need to wait in Eve until you get T2 ships to have fun in lowsec pvp, amongst other points.

You do not need to "wait to play". You do not need a T2 ship to have fun. Player skill, not SP, not T2, does in fact dominate pvp in Eve. I assert this, and I support it not with "hypotheticals", but with fact.
Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#258 - 2014-04-11 07:25:01 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Ah, another poster who completely misses the point. Try again?


No, you try at better explaining what your point is, because it is not clear what the hell you want at all.

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#259 - 2014-04-11 07:27:30 UTC
OP, since you love mindless grinding so much, have you tried mining?
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#260 - 2014-04-11 07:28:29 UTC
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
Ah, another poster who completely misses the point. Try again?


No, you try at better explaining what your point is, because it is not clear what the hell you want at all.


Your just wasting your time... He is just trolling at this point. He believes he's right and everyone else is wrong.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>