EVE General Discussion

What mechanic are New Order using in an unintended way?

Really, that's what you got out of my post ?

Maybe it was too enigmatic, I'll quote this introduction to the 'Letter and Spirit of the Law' on Wikipedia:


Or maybe this post from another poster previously in this thread:

For me, in Eve, the definition of what a griefer is isn't limited to mechanics, as there is so much that can be done here. It is not about the action of ganking, but the motivation for it (ganking for isk vs. Ganking for tears, gank+light trolling before moving on vs. Gank+heavy trolling to force a reaction of someone else's misery for their joy).

Me too, I've always wondered, what IS the difference.

1: Gank miner, pretend to be a religious fanatic, demand ISK to prevent future ganks
2. Gank miner, just demand ISK and say "Yo protection racket!"
3: Gank miner, laugh about it, and fly away.


Ganking itself will never go away. It's a CCP approved Emergent Content Generator. The only "thing" that screaming "grief" nets is less of 1 and 2, and more of 3.

This is GD, never let cognitive ability disrupt the rolling of face on keyboard!

Are you really being serious? You're actually playing the "it's the principle!" card?

I hate to break it to you, but a legitimate in game action remains so regardless of why someone does it. It doesn't suddenly become petition-able because you can manage to ascribe some motivation to us that you don't like.

Those are tools, not content. In a sandbox it is up to the players to create the content, almost by definition. You should know this. You are a pretty good content creator yourself, even if I do disagree with the vast majority of what you say (although not at all with what you do). Without the personalities and player interactions this game is about as interesting as doing a corporate tax return.

There is no "moral compass" in a video game. There is no E-honor. There is what the rules of the game allow, and what they don't.

I don't become evil by running over a prostitute in Grand Theft Auto, I don't become a criminal by charging usurious rent in Monopoly, and I don't become a Somali pirate when I demand 10 mil for a permit fee.

It's not "evil" to kill miners, bro.

And hence why they unfortunately need to put the rules in, since you can't count on people to be reasonable about the whole thing. Its why we have half the laws we do in the rest of the world.

One must admit that there is a point. We wouldn't need stuff like this if the majority of EVE players could be counted upon to give newbies a break, or some times exercise discretion. Unfortunately there's always going to be a group of people who get off on really ruining it for others. I've made enough alts to know there's always someone hanging out in a newbie system looking to push those limits. Like the Starter systems, The SOE arc gives a defined hunting ground where griefing players can easily find the inexperienced prey they're after. Specific means to attack them. If you want to get an easy kill or just plain make it difficult for someone it doesn't get any easier. And hey guess what? That action hits CCP where it hurts. No subs, means no revenue. No surprise that its come to this. If one is unhappy that they're doing it, well you probably need look only in a mirror to see who's to blame.

The funny thing is, most of the griefers I've ever encountered really don't like it when they get a taste of their own medicine. they'll be the first ones on the forum complaining about how the game isn't balanced to favour their style of play.

Would you like my honest opinion on the matter?

So much of this entire discussion is entirely the fault of the nature of the PvE content in this game. Most of it is static, repetitive, and in general ****ing brainless.

Most of it does not challenge the player, it does not force them to rise above their current state, it does not drive them to improve themselves in any way. Run the wheel enough times, get the cheese.

This causes problems in two ways. Firstly, quite a few of the people who don't like that kind of gameplay (I actively hate it, for example), have by now basically declared war on the very concept of PvE. We aren't out to get noobs or inexperienced players, persay, it's more of a coincedental result. That ties into the second point.

Secondly, since the vast majority of PvE content in the game does not make you learn a freaking thing about how to play the game correctly, they start out as noobs, and they stay noobs. Remember, it doesn't make you learn, so unless you are one of those rare self motivated people, you. will. not. get. better. Are we killing "noobs"? Yeah, probably. No matter how old their character is, doing it wrong is still doing it wrong. Old or new, they burn like everything else.

So, now, as you said, "defined hunting ground". That is CCP's fault, 100%. Those arcs basically don't move, it's as close to an on rails questline as EVE has in it. It takes a cursory use of Google to find out exactly where someone will be going on that route.

So, duh, people are going to hang out there. For the people who want to get kills, it is a guarantee of there being targets. It's a beautiful chokepoint. Predators go where the prey is.

If they don't want those systems to be perma camped, then those flipping missions need to be dynamic. If they don't want these incessant "victims" crying about being blown up, then they need to create PvE content to make them step up their game and learn to play.

But people need to stop asking for the bar to be lowered.