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New Grief Play Rules?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2014-04-08 05:07:38 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I will never understand this

Are you that pathetic and bad at EvE that you have to pick on new players? Is griefing newbies the only thing that gets you goin?

The fact that you went to look up the boundaries is a good thing. The fact you don't understand them is well sad. CCP has created this sandbox....and all they ask is you respect a couple of rules....maybe let new players grow...enjoy the game...help grow it ...maybe subscribe.

Want to kill something? Need mayhem and madness...head to low sec...or worse Jita. Tons of assorted targets. But for the love of cornflakes stay out of newbie systems...leave the sisters arc alone.


He is talking about killing vets in these things.
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#42 - 2014-04-08 06:03:33 UTC
Grinder221 wrote:
CCP has said in the past that Only Rookies Or new players are safe in a rookie system.


Can-baiting low skilled players is the most pathetic form of PvP that I can imagine. Even barge gankers rank higher in my opinion.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-04-08 06:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Welcome to 2012?

WTF is wrong with people on these forums.

Yes Bugging new players and baiting in Starter/TUT/EPIC Arc systems will get you the ire of the GM.

The rule in these systems does not include those Big Bad players that believe it does though.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
#44 - 2014-04-08 06:41:01 UTC
Pytria Le'Danness wrote:

Can-baiting low skilled players is the most pathetic form of PvP that I can imagine. Even barge gankers rank higher in my opinion.


Regan Rotineque wrote:
I will never understand this

Are you that pathetic and bad at EvE that you have to pick on new players? Is griefing newbies the only thing that gets you goin?


Give me strength... the thread isn't about about killing rookies. It's about killing older players who believe they are protected whilst in designated rookie or SOE arc systems.

o/
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#45 - 2014-04-08 06:51:06 UTC
Tyburn Stannis wrote:


Give me strength... the thread isn't about about killing rookies. It's about killing older players who believe they are protected whilst in designated rookie or SOE arc systems.

o/

The problem is, and likely what CCP are actually cracking down on, those players that sit there suspect baiting, trolling, scanning and warping into peoples missions and grabbing the loot etc, who like to pretend that 'I wouldn't do it to a newbie intentionally, I was looking for a Vet player and made a mistake'. And there are quite a few of those who try and use the excuse that Vets aren't protected in the Newbie systems to justify baiting in the newbie systems. And then claim 'He shot me so of course I shot him back, how was I to know he was a week old'.

That kind of behaviour is them trying to edge around CCP's rules in order to get away with actual griefing of newbies. Which isn't wanted. It's one thing to shoot someone who should know better, it's another to set up a scenario designed to drag in people who don't know better right in front of a bunch of people who don't know better and then pretend that you weren't after them.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#46 - 2014-04-08 07:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I think it's cool. I started in 2003 and didn't have to put up with all the high SP losers people have to put up with today likely would have not stayed and contributed the thousands of dollars I have since then . They like to call it content creation buts it's actually just anti-social deliberate harassment of players that contributes nothing to the EvE community.

I'm hardly a carebear either, spent most of my time killing people in high sec wars but they always had a way out before the wars started.



I can say the same.

*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

And here is another "CCP needs to define and elaborate down to every last dotted "I" and crossed "t".

For what? To circumvent it? To push the limit and then pick one word out of one sentence and pretend you didn't understand or even better, pretend that CCP does not understand.

(And it's not like they need to. Intent is everything. The banhammer will knock the "but I didn't do anything" smirk clean off their avatar)

But it's nothing new for a pattern. The worse people are, the more laws you need for every little thing. We've been through this already.

So, even IF you get a new player who understands they are playing a game, and even if this new player is not going to be goaded into PM or comms and needled and snarked at until they are frothing, and thus not leaving content to be fetishistically shared on some out of game blog for other players who like to rile people up like that .

(And until that "community" is ready to explain not only WHY they do it, but why they are so motivated to share it, or as the question goes: Where do they get off doing that? Until I get an explanation I'm calling them fetishists)

That player is going to be made to feel as if they are babysitting, and they won't stick around.

New players running SoE Epic Arc should be left alone.

Let them stay in and then go bug them in the COSMOS missions later on. They might even fight back.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Oxide Ammar
#47 - 2014-04-08 07:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:
People can flipping your items needed to complete Epic Arc missions is actually a problem. You have no solution besides petitioning for the mission to be restarted.

Someone will call this working as intended, at which point we can all call him an idiot for saying a mechanic where you have to contact a GM every time to reset your entire mission is working as intended.


Flipping items needed for epic arcs or COSMOS missions resulting more work for GMs to restart missions for those missioneers that they don't want. I can't imagine how many tickets being opened for this particular issue but I think GMs had enough and they are going to swing ban hammers, unless you can reset quest items by yourself you won't find something new change in future.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2014-04-08 07:17:28 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So, even IF you get a new player who understands they are playing a game, and even if this new player is not going to be goaded into PM or comms and needled and snarked at until they are frothing, and thus not leaving content to be fetishistically shared on some out of game blog for other players who like to rile people up like that .

(And until that "community" is ready to explain not only WHY they do it, but why they are so motivated to share it, or as the question goes: Where do they get off doing that? Until I get an explanation I'm calling them fetishists)

That player is going to be made to feel as if they are babysitting, and they won't stick around.

New players running SoE Epic Arc should be left alone.

Did you read the OP at all?

You do realise that this thread is not about new players right?

It's simply a question about an in game action that was previously considered ok and whether any change has been made that protects old characters as well.

There's never any harm in asking questions and ensuring you play within the rules. What's so wrong with that approach?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#49 - 2014-04-08 07:29:24 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So, even IF you get a new player who understands they are playing a game, and even if this new player is not going to be goaded into PM or comms and needled and snarked at until they are frothing, and thus not leaving content to be fetishistically shared on some out of game blog for other players who like to rile people up like that .

(And until that "community" is ready to explain not only WHY they do it, but why they are so motivated to share it, or as the question goes: Where do they get off doing that? Until I get an explanation I'm calling them fetishists)

That player is going to be made to feel as if they are babysitting, and they won't stick around.

New players running SoE Epic Arc should be left alone.

Did you read the OP at all?

You do realise that this thread is not about new players right?

It's simply a question about an in game action that was previously considered ok and whether any change has been made that protects old characters as well.

There's never any harm in asking questions and ensuring you play within the rules. What's so wrong with that approach?



I read their blogs they that write to each other.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#50 - 2014-04-08 07:56:59 UTC
Tyburn Stannis wrote:
Give me strength... the thread isn't about about killing rookies. It's about killing older players who believe they are protected whilst in designated rookie or SOE arc systems.


Yeah, because dozens of veteran players are running the SoE arc in order to get the exquisite Destroyers skill book. And those few that do for standings will fall for the can bait trick.

As someone else wrote, this whole thread appears to be a justification for "Oh my, I accidentally killed a newbie while aiming for 76B Machariels".

Besides, he's totally asking the wrong people. Only CCP can answer his questions, so I feel entitled to ridicule him.
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
#51 - 2014-04-08 10:20:01 UTC
Take a look at the systems in the SOE arc. Go google Hek. See why "no shenanigans to any player regardless of age " might just be a major change to 0.5 sec pirate market minihub...

(Not that "global protection" actually is the case anyway if you bother to read the actual CCP statements, but hey, people seem to love any excuse to complain about getting interacted with these days...)

o/
Vigroth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-04-08 10:22:49 UTC
Pytria Le'Danness wrote:
Tyburn Stannis wrote:
Give me strength... the thread isn't about about killing rookies. It's about killing older players who believe they are protected whilst in designated rookie or SOE arc systems.


Yeah, because dozens of veteran players are running the SoE arc in order to get the exquisite Destroyers skill book. And those few that do for standings will fall for the can bait trick.

As someone else wrote, this whole thread appears to be a justification for "Oh my, I accidentally killed a newbie while aiming for 76B Machariels".

Besides, he's totally asking the wrong people. Only CCP can answer his questions, so I feel entitled to ridicule him.



You should actually read before replying. It was stated earlier several times that no rookies were harmed, you would be surprised how many people fall for the can baiting who have been active in EVE for years.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-04-08 11:07:21 UTC
Grinder221 wrote:
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:
People can flipping your items needed to complete Epic Arc missions is actually a problem. You have no solution besides petitioning for the mission to be restarted.

Someone will call this working as intended, at which point we can all call him an idiot for saying a mechanic where you have to contact a GM every time to reset your entire mission is working as intended.



You don't you can dock cancel the mission and start it over at anytime


Yeah my market alt had one of the mission things stolen. i docked, abandoned the mission reaquired it and redid it.
Had a friendly chat with the guy who stole it. Seems like he makes a good business from this.
More power to him i say.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-04-08 11:17:12 UTC
Bunch of people arguing semantics in a EULA specifically written to be open to broad interpretation in the event of activities that hurt EVE rather than helping it.

Guys, haven't we learned anything?

/蘭

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#55 - 2014-04-08 11:17:34 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#56 - 2014-04-08 11:28:16 UTC
It's quite simple. If you are performing any action which may make another player sad is against the EULA, especially if you preemptively knew they'd be sad or if they stated it would make them sad. So hold hands and grind isk and have super friendship fun!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#57 - 2014-04-08 12:00:09 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:
People can flipping your items needed to complete Epic Arc missions is actually a problem. You have no solution besides petitioning for the mission to be restarted.

Someone will call this working as intended, at which point we can all call him an idiot for saying a mechanic where you have to contact a GM every time to reset your entire mission is working as intended.


Flipping items needed for epic arcs or COSMOS missions resulting more work for GMs to restart missions for those missioneers that they don't want. I can't imagine how many tickets being opened for this particular issue but I think GMs had enough and they are going to swing ban hammers, unless you can reset quest items by yourself you won't find something new change in future.


Taking COSMOS items is fair game and always will be. As are level 4 epic arc mission items. An exception for rookies cannot possibly apply to those, and no you shouldn't be pulling down 100s of mil without even the possibility of interdiction.

SOE is the only level 1 arc, and it is not troublesome to me if rookies in the arc systems are protected. If the fact that one of the systems is Hek is troublesome, then the GMs should ask CCP to move the agent.
Niec Mogul
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-04-08 16:42:23 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tyburn Stannis wrote:


Give me strength... the thread isn't about about killing rookies. It's about killing older players who believe they are protected whilst in designated rookie or SOE arc systems.

o/

The problem is, and likely what CCP are actually cracking down on, those players that sit there suspect baiting, trolling, scanning and warping into peoples missions and grabbing the loot etc, who like to pretend that 'I wouldn't do it to a newbie intentionally, I was looking for a Vet player and made a mistake'. And there are quite a few of those who try and use the excuse that Vets aren't protected in the Newbie systems to justify baiting in the newbie systems. And then claim 'He shot me so of course I shot him back, how was I to know he was a week old'.

That kind of behaviour is them trying to edge around CCP's rules in order to get away with actual griefing of newbies. Which isn't wanted. It's one thing to shoot someone who should know better, it's another to set up a scenario designed to drag in people who don't know better right in front of a bunch of people who don't know better and then pretend that you weren't after them.


You have likely got the shape of the situation here. All these types of posts reek of disingenuousness and remind me of children dealing with parents' rules:
Parent: "Stay out of the living room!"
(Kid edges their toes right to the carpet, stretches as far as they can to reach things in the living room without stepping inside...)
Parent: "Hey! Get out of the living room!"
Kid: "But, I'm not in the living room! I'm in the hall, see!?"

Guess who's gettin' beat for being a smartass...
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#59 - 2014-04-08 17:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
There's nothing to create, *Snip* Please refrain from discussing other (non-EvE/Dust/Valkyrie) games. ISD Ezwal., the mechanic was already there just took some prick to think if how to use it against other players.

Yeah retaining players will totally hurt ccp and the game.....not

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Oshia Launay
Galactic Fringe Inc
#60 - 2014-04-08 18:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Oshia Launay
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The rule referred to by the OP is banning dropping yellow containers to bait people into going suspect.


Stealing mission loot and ransoming it back (regardless of whether the real intention is griefing noobs for tears or not) is perfectly fine according to the rules.

All you need to be "legal" is some pretense of it being to make money. The New Order "permits" are like this, because they do actually make money from permits, they have a loop hole that lets them grief new miners without getting banned providing they do not harass the same guy continually and make some attempt to "advertise" their rules.

It's interesting you mention this. When Erotica 1 was banned, there was a plethora of people insisting, nah, demanding that CCP provides a very precise description of what 'line in the sand' exactly was crossed, going all virtual legalese, and endlessly refusing to see that Erotica was banned not for breaking an inexistent chapter 5, section 1, paragraph 3, word 12, letter 4 of the Terms of Service ("requesting others to sing on Teamspeak is not allowed"), but a broad rule regarding harassment. With broad rules come few loopholes, and exploiters (of rules, generally speaking) hate that.

The 'New Order' is walking on thin ice, they know it and that's why they have taken measures to remain under CCP's radar. Griefers would do well to remember however that CCP are no fools, merely lenient. Pretense only does the trick insofar as CCP does not care.