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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Dehval
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1261 - 2014-06-01 23:10:34 UTC
Maya Sazas wrote:
Dehval wrote:
The new damage application of the Gila means is actually MORE flexible in what it can and cannot shoot and can now engage nearly every ship in the game and be on equal footing. It is no longer limited to slow moving brawlers or completely locked down kiters.


Actually i see a huge problem here: Basic drone mechanics. It is true that against a web/scrammed target your damage application is pretty neat, as long as your drones can establish a tight orbit. Anything moving at 1,5+ k/s though can easily "kite" your med drones (yes even Valkyries, it gets painfully obvious with hammerheads though) due to the fact that they shut off their MWD once they get in range. Your damage application on an unwebbed/scrammed target is basically none existent. Drone Navigation Computers are not a solution to this problem.

Considering that the Gila is a kiting ship at heart (even after the buffed fitting stats you have to sacrifice to much to fit a decent tank which would make it a viable brawler. Active tanking is not a real option because of the laughable cap pool) it will be pretty much useless for solo work once Kronos hits Tranquility.

Just for fun i tried a tripple DNC fit on SISI. I wasn´t even able to scratch the shields of a Deimos burning at 1.8 k/s. Damage application was close to zero, no matter which med drones were used.

That being said: Yes, after these changes you will be able to fit decent brawler fits as long as you got logi support and tackle. But in the end this is just another kick in the face for every solo pilot.
See, I am not having nearly the same results.

Was this before or after they changed the combat drone optimals? Because now with most medium drones having a 5km optimal +4km falloff they don't have the hopscotch problem nearly as much. I find that unless the ship in question is pumping 4km/s constantly the drones can easily keep pace and apply a reasonable amount of damage. I was able to comfortably engage a lot of different ships with a buffer kiting fit and only died to Orthruses/Orthri(sp?) or being bad and getting slingshotted into scram range.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1262 - 2014-06-02 05:29:44 UTC
Curant Thanger wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


CYNABAL

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff




I feel like this bonus doesn't make any sense. While Gallente do get falloff bonuses, they're not all that common on gallente, added to that, it makes no sense for a projectile bonus to be coming from Gallente.

I know it's been this way for a while, but as most people on this thread have already said, the cynabal needs a rebalance anyway, so why not use this faction bonus to rebalance the ship...


Yeah, that galente bonus always struck me as odd aswell.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Curant Thanger
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#1263 - 2014-06-02 18:43:46 UTC
I agree also that the gila should get 25mbs because it makes no sense for any kind of drone boat without bonuses to light drones to not be blue to field a full flight.

Also, a missile damage bonus on the gallente bonus seems weird to me too. Perhaps some kind of bonus to medium hybrids? Since both gallente and Caldari use them it seems to me to make more sense.
Demethrius Petronius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1264 - 2014-06-02 23:12:07 UTC
Anyone tried out Kronos Gila for exploration? How is it now with only 2 medium drones?
Being a little worried cause frigate/cruiser sized npc ships tend to eat those quickly.
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#1265 - 2014-06-03 00:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasril Pux
Demethrius Petronius wrote:
Anyone tried out Kronos Gila for exploration? How is it now with only 2 medium drones?
Being a little worried cause frigate/cruiser sized npc ships tend to eat those quickly.


I have tried it out in C1/C2 W-Space and it is still a solid choice. It's drones laugh off most attacks except for those from sleeper battleships. Canny sleepers also web your drones which can be a pain, but in all my testing I only ever lost one drone due to my own stupidity.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.

Sicha Starlight
Tectics
#1266 - 2014-06-03 08:10:59 UTC
Demethrius Petronius wrote:
Anyone tried out Kronos Gila for exploration? How is it now with only 2 medium drones?
Being a little worried cause frigate/cruiser sized npc ships tend to eat those quickly.


I have tested it you can use it in low sec on SiSi but there is a specific way to test it in Wormholes (you have to send mail to CCP and so on), but I didn't bother. Since I used Gila so far in Wormhole exploration and you could do even Class 5 (I did it ;) ) but now after this horrible NERF you basically can't do that any more.

Gila is being "redesigned" into brawler so you can't do much with it since Ishtar would eat it appart and not to mention Sacrilege :) if you have Gila my advice is to put it on market. While it's worth something. Blink

As much as I tested it Frigs, and even some Cruisers eat you drones like Cookie Monster Cookies for breakfast and you quickly run out of them. CryCry

You do have a bit chance to compensate with additional RMLM or something but that is just a pathetic way to compensate on a drone boat. Anyways if you like drones lvl Galante & Ammar if you haven't so far, and go for Stratios or Astero! Gile is now just mediocre brawler. Cry
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1267 - 2014-06-03 13:07:56 UTC
Sicha Starlight wrote:
Demethrius Petronius wrote:
Anyone tried out Kronos Gila for exploration? How is it now with only 2 medium drones?
Being a little worried cause frigate/cruiser sized npc ships tend to eat those quickly.



Gila is being "redesigned" into brawler so you can't do much with it since Ishtar would eat it appart and not to mention Sacrilege :) if you have Gila my advice is to put it on market. While it's worth something. Blink


If you still need to fire sale your Gilas, hit me up for a fair price:)

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1268 - 2014-06-03 13:10:20 UTC
Sicha Starlight wrote:
Demethrius Petronius wrote:
Anyone tried out Kronos Gila for exploration? How is it now with only 2 medium drones?
Being a little worried cause frigate/cruiser sized npc ships tend to eat those quickly.


I have tested it you can use it in low sec on SiSi but there is a specific way to test it in Wormholes (you have to send mail to CCP and so on), but I didn't bother. Since I used Gila so far in Wormhole exploration and you could do even Class 5 (I did it ;) ) but now after this horrible NERF you basically can't do that any more.

Gila is being "redesigned" into brawler so you can't do much with it since Ishtar would eat it appart and not to mention Sacrilege :) if you have Gila my advice is to put it on market. While it's worth something. Blink

As much as I tested it Frigs, and even some Cruisers eat you drones like Cookie Monster Cookies for breakfast and you quickly run out of them. CryCry

You do have a bit chance to compensate with additional RMLM or something but that is just a pathetic way to compensate on a drone boat. Anyways if you like drones lvl Galante & Ammar if you haven't so far, and go for Stratios or Astero! Gile is now just mediocre brawler. Cry


So you're saying that despite now years of people getting used to the various ways of keeping aggro off drones, you still haven't figured it out for yourself and are flying a 2014 Gila like it's 2009. Got it lol.

I too would like some firesale Gilas please.
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#1269 - 2014-06-03 13:26:09 UTC
Sicha Starlight wrote:
but there is a specific way to test it in Wormholes (you have to send mail to CCP and so on)


I found one either yesterday or the day before without help from CCP. But I'll admit that is the first time I've ever been able to find one in SiSi. It was either a stroke of luck or CCP has seeded more wormholes on that server.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.

Sicha Starlight
Tectics
#1270 - 2014-06-03 14:22:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


So you're saying that despite now years of people getting used to the various ways of keeping aggro off drones, you still haven't figured it out for yourself and are flying a 2014 Gila like it's 2009. Got it lol.

I too would like some firesale Gilas please.


It's not about getting aggro of your drones, it's about their number! Which is small and that is simple fact. Drones got destroyed also another fact, when they blow up your drones in drone bay, which again is small, you got left with pretty defenseless ship, well in terms of doing dps of your own. Or if you havent read so far you are reduced to two mediums, and total 10 in drone bay. Light I don't even use since they are quite useless in wormholes, and pretty much anywhere else besides Hi-Sec. I hoped that ridiculous buff of 5x hitpoints would do something but unfortunately, when your drone gets webbed and they do. They die pretty quick (I mean 750 HP shields and around 1150 HP Armor is not a "life" savior). CCP someday will have to face the fact and state that they had a "Brain fart" and it has gotten in release.

About prices for Gila if I dislike new Gila that does not mean that I dislike ISK, I'll sell my Gila's just like any other item in the game, trying to get highest price possible! Blink
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1271 - 2014-06-03 14:54:21 UTC
Sicha Starlight wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


So you're saying that despite now years of people getting used to the various ways of keeping aggro off drones, you still haven't figured it out for yourself and are flying a 2014 Gila like it's 2009. Got it lol.

I too would like some firesale Gilas please.


It's not about getting aggro of your drones, it's about their number! Which is small and that is simple fact. Drones got destroyed also another fact, when they blow up your drones in drone bay, which again is small, you got left with pretty defenseless ship, well in terms of doing dps of your own. Or if you havent read so far you are reduced to two mediums, and total 10 in drone bay. Light I don't even use since they are quite useless in wormholes, and pretty much anywhere else besides Hi-Sec. I hoped that ridiculous buff of 5x hitpoints would do something but unfortunately, when your drone gets webbed and they do. They die pretty quick (I mean 750 HP shields and around 1150 HP Armor is not a "life" savior). CCP someday will have to face the fact and state that they had a "Brain fart" and it has gotten in release.

About prices for Gila if I dislike new Gila that does not mean that I dislike ISK, I'll sell my Gila's just like any other item in the game, trying to get highest price possible! Blink



So , again, you are playing in wormholes and don't know how to hold sleeper aggro. Why are your drones getting webbed in the 1st place?
Demethrius Petronius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1272 - 2014-06-03 23:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Demethrius Petronius
Just tried out this ship, its magnificent for exploration. Did Serpentis 4/10 rather quickly. Had to manage aggro here and there, but it wasn't really that bad.

@Jenn aSide
How do you manage aggro btw? I read about remote repair modules and such, but sometimes my missiles aren't enough to keep of some elite frigate npc going against them. (slightly off-topic)
T0adwart
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#1273 - 2014-06-03 23:46:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sicha Starlight wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


So you're saying that despite now years of people getting used to the various ways of keeping aggro off drones, you still haven't figured it out for yourself and are flying a 2014 Gila like it's 2009. Got it lol.

I too would like some firesale Gilas please.


It's not about getting aggro of your drones, it's about their number! Which is small and that is simple fact. Drones got destroyed also another fact, when they blow up your drones in drone bay, which again is small, you got left with pretty defenseless ship, well in terms of doing dps of your own. Or if you havent read so far you are reduced to two mediums, and total 10 in drone bay. Light I don't even use since they are quite useless in wormholes, and pretty much anywhere else besides Hi-Sec. I hoped that ridiculous buff of 5x hitpoints would do something but unfortunately, when your drone gets webbed and they do. They die pretty quick (I mean 750 HP shields and around 1150 HP Armor is not a "life" savior). CCP someday will have to face the fact and state that they had a "Brain fart" and it has gotten in release.

About prices for Gila if I dislike new Gila that does not mean that I dislike ISK, I'll sell my Gila's just like any other item in the game, trying to get highest price possible! Blink



So , again, you are playing in wormholes and don't know how to hold sleeper aggro. Why are your drones getting webbed in the 1st place?



I would really like to know how you plan to send 2 medium drones 60km away in a c3 wh, even a c2 for that matter, and expect it to live long enough to do any good or even get back when it takes aggro.
Please submit link to video showing you soloing in a gila on sisi or I will assume you haven't tried it. Until then.... keep the whole annoying again.. again comments to yourself.
eneman81
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1274 - 2014-06-04 02:13:01 UTC
My vigilant called, it would like its powergrid back
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#1275 - 2014-06-04 02:17:08 UTC
T0adwart wrote:
I would really like to know how you plan to send 2 medium drones 60km away in a c3 wh, even a c2 for that matter, and expect it to live long enough to do any good or even get back when it takes aggro.
Please submit link to video showing you soloing in a gila on sisi or I will assume you haven't tried it. Until then.... keep the whole annoying again.. again comments to yourself.


I've been keeping them at about 8-17km from me while brawling with sleepers which seems to work pretty well. I might make a video for proof soon, but currently there are copious amounts of lag on SiSi for some odd reason which is making micromanagement a pain in the butt and doesn't make for good cinema.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.

Jammmer
Full Mental Jacket
#1276 - 2014-06-04 06:36:56 UTC
Still pretty dissapointed with the Gila changes - my biggest problem is you took a valid ship off those that were using it to create a new ship with a completely new and different style.

Please do not recycle ships while I am flying them - if you want a new ship create a new one.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1277 - 2014-06-04 10:14:59 UTC
eneman81 wrote:
My vigilant called, it would like its powergrid back


This. So this.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1278 - 2014-06-04 12:37:57 UTC
Demethrius Petronius wrote:
Just tried out this ship, its magnificent for exploration. Did Serpentis 4/10 rather quickly. Had to manage aggro here and there, but it wasn't really that bad.

@Jenn aSide
How do you manage aggro btw? I read about remote repair modules and such, but sometimes my missiles aren't enough to keep of some elite frigate npc going against them. (slightly off-topic)


Small remote repair mod (deadspace ones are cheap) + an EWAR mod (Cetus ECM burst works best for me). Sleeper AI HATEs ECM and remote reps way more than it hates drones lol. I launch 1 missile from my cargo (making a can in space) and remote rep it because the AI doesn't know the difference, it just knows someone is remote repping something lol. The ECM burst also has the side effect of helping you out if you get tackled by an unwanted visitor lol. Neuting can sometime be a problem in a C3 but i've never ever had a problem in a C2.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1279 - 2014-06-04 12:43:45 UTC
T0adwart wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sicha Starlight wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


So you're saying that despite now years of people getting used to the various ways of keeping aggro off drones, you still haven't figured it out for yourself and are flying a 2014 Gila like it's 2009. Got it lol.

I too would like some firesale Gilas please.


It's not about getting aggro of your drones, it's about their number! Which is small and that is simple fact. Drones got destroyed also another fact, when they blow up your drones in drone bay, which again is small, you got left with pretty defenseless ship, well in terms of doing dps of your own. Or if you havent read so far you are reduced to two mediums, and total 10 in drone bay. Light I don't even use since they are quite useless in wormholes, and pretty much anywhere else besides Hi-Sec. I hoped that ridiculous buff of 5x hitpoints would do something but unfortunately, when your drone gets webbed and they do. They die pretty quick (I mean 750 HP shields and around 1150 HP Armor is not a "life" savior). CCP someday will have to face the fact and state that they had a "Brain fart" and it has gotten in release.

About prices for Gila if I dislike new Gila that does not mean that I dislike ISK, I'll sell my Gila's just like any other item in the game, trying to get highest price possible! Blink



So , again, you are playing in wormholes and don't know how to hold sleeper aggro. Why are your drones getting webbed in the 1st place?



I would really like to know how you plan to send 2 medium drones 60km away in a c3 wh, even a c2 for that matter, and expect it to live long enough to do any good or even get back when it takes aggro.
Please submit link to video showing you soloing in a gila on sisi or I will assume you haven't tried it. Until then.... keep the whole annoying again.. again comments to yourself.


It's not my fault that sooo many people don't know basic things about dealing with Sleeper/incursion styled AI (even after years of dealing with it). With a ship fit and flown properly drones aren't gonna take aggro. And what ...not so smart.... person is going to send drones that far away in a wormhole anyway? That's why i take a chance to many people don't take and put a prop mod on my Gila so I can stay close (ish) to my drones (screw kiting, if you can tank a c3 close to the sleepers you're doing it wrong).

See my post above, it was easy to generate enough threat to manipulate the AI before Kronos, now with 2 super drones coming out of the Gila it's even easier.
NewGit
Mercenaries of Mayhem
HeeChee Uprising
#1280 - 2014-06-04 14:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: NewGit
NewGit wrote:
I'm looking at the numbers here, using my current Gila fits, and am having a hard time trying to figure out how these changes are supposed to make the Gila better.

Gila in pre-Kronos (current configuration) = 842.7 dps from drones (2 Gecko, 2 Hammerhead IIs, 1 Hornet II and 2 x Drone Damage Amp IIs).

Gila in post-Kronos (2 medium Hammerhead II drones) configuration 128.5 dps *500% bonus = 642.5 dps. (same mods as previous configuration).

Change = -200 dps.

An extra launcher and (kinetic/thermal) missile damage bonus looks to add perhaps an additional 100dps (with T2 Scourge), leaving a post-Kronos net loss of about 100 dps.

Am I missing something, or is this in fact a nerf-in-disguise ?


Wow - it seems I did miscalculate. I had no idea I would be losing that much DPS. Sure glad it wasn't a "nerf".

Lets see, same set up as before the patch, except now only 2 Hammerhead IIs and an extra (T2) heavy launcher. Total (post Kronos) dps = 707. That's 135 dps less than I used to get from drones alone. I added a 3rd (T2) DDA and that brings it up to 779 (total) dps.

There is absolutely no way that going from 5 drones to 2 allows me to "better apply damage", especially when my drone bay has been reduced by 75% leaving me with considerably fewer choices in size/type of drones available.
Not to mention fewer replacements if I do lose any.
Not to mention that 2 mediums die a lot quicker than 5 heavies.
Not to mention that 2 bonused medium drones putting out 623 dps now is somehow supposed to be better than the 842 (drone) dps I had previously.
Good thing my 2 little drones can fly further now, especially as my missile range has been cut in half.

Oh well, could be worse. Imagine if they'd actually nerfed it ! Shocked