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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2014-04-07 22:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Carmen Electra
I second the apparent consensus in this thread that Cynabal nerf is unnecessary. (See comments re: Vagabond, etc.) It's not OP like it once was.

Also, go easy (if anything) on the Machariel when you post its "re-balance". The TE nerf was more than enough on it.
Jarlaxle Naskingar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2014-04-07 22:43:49 UTC
Could we just get a functional log out to character selection screen before we worry about anything else. Which should have been unveiled right when you allowed dual character training.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#243 - 2014-04-07 22:44:07 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the rattlesnake won't have a sentry bonus and a heavy bonus .. it will be heavies only along with its missile damage bonus
Not saying it won't happen, but how do you know it will? Sentries are the same band as heavies which removes the issue of the band limits which are necessary for balancing the current line of bonuses.


cos its clear in the OP they don't want guristas using sentries and overlapping with gallente droneboats.. plus if they were going to use sentries they would have allowed the gila too use them .... they are brawlers now like they were always supposed to be.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2014-04-07 22:45:35 UTC
Iorga Eeta wrote:
Aglais wrote:

Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.


Because it would be a unique modifier and it would only apply to medium ewar drones like the rest of the cruiser's drone bonuses. Are there any other ships in the game that give a bonus to ewar and combat utility drones? Besides ECM drones, do the ewar and combat utility drones ever get used? I think the TP drones get used sometimes. Stacking effects really make the other drones worthless. And here, you have a ship that could actually use those type of drones effectively without the usual stack penalties.
Would still make a rather useless bonus IMHO. You have better dedicated ewar platforms for the actual ewar work and actually using the gila for that purpose defangs the ship in terms of damage output. Doesn't seem like a decent trade that would justify people flying it that way.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#245 - 2014-04-07 22:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3
Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
#246 - 2014-04-07 22:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Azabu
Most of these changes are interesting but two are particularly pointless and will simply make us fly expensive cruiser frigates less - and instead we will fly T1s and AHACs which have more bang or survivability for the isk.

CCP Rise wrote:


...

========================================================================================

VIGILANT

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness

Role Bonus:

75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage


Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1050 PWG(-150), 360 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2175 / 2500(+175) / 2625
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1545 / 490000 (-1250) / 3.15
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 242(+36) / .48 / 9830000 / 6.54s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 49km(+14km) / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 130



The Vigilant's main role lately is that of an incursion ship or heavy gate tackler that can be used with neutron blasters. But it is so expensive that it is rarely used in small gang pvp. Instead one can purchase a much less expensive Talos, Thorax, Deimos, Bruitx, etc. and other ships are used for webbing like the Rapier, I was hoping to see a buff to the Vigilant that would make its cost make sense when compared to these other ships. This set of changes to powergrid, velocity, and targeting range seems to encourage fits of medium rails or ions. But it reduces the value of the Vigilant. Please reconsider the powergrid nerf and buff the Vigilant's tank even further. Or please make it more unique - right now these changes will make it like like a Deimos that is difficult to fit.

Quote:

CYNABAL

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire


Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 820 PWG(-280), 335 CPU(-15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47km(+2km) / 390(-33) / 7
Sensor strength: 18(+2)
Signature radius: 115(+5)

Look forward to hearing from you o/


I need to protest this change to the Cynabal. The Arty Cynabal - is sort of an iconic ship to a lot of us nullsec roamers like the Rifter, the Thorax, the Apoc etc.,... It's one of those ships that has its role and really doesn't need to be messed with. As it was it still had its uses and was only starting to be overshadowed by buffed T1s and HACs (like the Muninn). With this change to powergrid the Cynabal will no longer be the ship to roam in that it has been. The Cynabal will be overshadowed by the Muninn, Cane, SFI, Vagabond, and even Rupture with this change. Please reconsider this change. Most of us don't want this.

Otherwise the Gila, Ashimmu, and Phantasm changes are cool and give them all weird roles.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2014-04-07 22:49:36 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the rattlesnake won't have a sentry bonus and a heavy bonus .. it will be heavies only along with its missile damage bonus
Not saying it won't happen, but how do you know it will? Sentries are the same band as heavies which removes the issue of the band limits which are necessary for balancing the current line of bonuses.


cos its clear in the OP they don't want guristas using sentries and overlapping with gallente droneboats.. plus if they were going to use sentries they would have allowed the gila too use them .... they are brawlers now like they were always supposed to be.
No, what's clear is the don't want the Gila overlapping the ishtar. We have yet to see if that holds true to the RS and Domi. Considering they wanted it to concentrate on meduim drones, not large types, it would have been awkward at best to shoehorn sentries in. It would have literally made no sense. Also high EHP alone does not a brawler make so I'm not sure where the idea they were always meant to be brawlers comes from.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2014-04-07 22:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3
The damage was not nerfed, look at the newly enhanced role bonus.

Edit: misread the post, though it's not being buffed either by my math:
3*2.5 = 7.5 effective turrets
Vs
3*2*1.25 = 7.5 effective turrets
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#249 - 2014-04-07 22:57:28 UTC
Harvey James wrote:

well really it seems odd that the dramiel has the tracking bonus aswell as a falloff bonus like the wolf.. both bonuses combined are a little OP really..


Because you see these ships out in such abundance.
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2014-04-07 22:57:43 UTC
Well the missile bonus from gallente cruisers on the gila seems odd. I woulda had prefered something like MWD bonus for the drones.
Iorga Eeta
Hekatonkheires Industries
#251 - 2014-04-07 23:01:03 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Would still make a rather useless bonus IMHO. You have better dedicated ewar platforms for the actual ewar work and actually using the gila for that purpose defangs the ship in terms of damage output. Doesn't seem like a decent trade that would justify people flying it that way.


With the bandwidth and the drone bay reductions, the Gila loses it's ability to carry a flight of ECM drones, which is a pretty standard thing for drone ships to carry. That said, maybe that's alright. I was thinking that if anyone should have amped up combat utility and ewar drones, it should be the Guristas.

With the release of the pirate novice ships a while ago, CCP hinted at pirates being a playable faction. Maybe some future Gurista's ewar ship should have that sort of bonus. There aren't any ships that offer a bonus for those types of drones, so it would be nice if something did.
darkness reins
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2014-04-07 23:05:12 UTC
Jarlaxle Naskingar wrote:
Could we just get a functional log out to character selection screen before we worry about anything else. Which should have been unveiled right when you allowed dual character training.



totally agree would make life a lot easier when you have 3 toons on one account
Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2014-04-07 23:10:15 UTC
Would like to see the Cynabal get some optimal range bonuses over tracking or falloff. Gear it towards Arty :)

Is it Guristas that are utter gits with ECM in missions? Imagine some sort of ECM drone bonus would be quite fitting if so. Although I think ECM drones need a complete rebalance as they are at the moment.
Anno Purake
Chimaera Syndicate
Hard Knocks Citizens
#254 - 2014-04-07 23:17:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


I'm glad to hear this, because frankly the nerf is not required at all. I imagine that the Angel cartel ships are popular because they function well. Instead of buffing the others at the same time you nerf the Cynabal (relegating it to the scrap heap), consider using it as a baseline and brining the other ships up to par.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#255 - 2014-04-07 23:17:59 UTC
Love the drone bonus of the Gila, combined with the separation of mediums and lights in skills. Those are going to be some mean mediums, and I'm guessing the rattlesnake is going to end up with a couple of mighty heavy drones too Cool

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#256 - 2014-04-07 23:18:04 UTC
When are these changes going on Sisi?
Grath Telkin
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#257 - 2014-04-07 23:24:10 UTC
I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.

Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.

Don't do that.

The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#258 - 2014-04-07 23:26:57 UTC
Cheng Musana wrote:
Well the missile bonus from gallente cruisers on the gila seems odd. I woulda had prefered something like MWD bonus for the drones.


By my calculations, 2 Hammerheads will have a top speed of 2520 m/s , when the 20% speed buff is factored in, with damage of 187.2 for each drone. These things will still be way way too slow to justify putting all that damage into 2 drones. One get popped by the target, and a huge chunk of the damage of the ship is gone.

As as I said earlier, the ship is utterly useless in an PvE environment, since the AI will simply web the drones and eat in them in 18 seconds instead of 3.


Naomi Anthar
#259 - 2014-04-07 23:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
Grath Telkin wrote:
I kinda praised the thread a little too soon i guess, I hadn't noticed the fairly massive reductions in grid to the serpentis and angel ship.

Lets not be silly nobody was running around screaming about how much grid the vigilant had, it was a ship that was tight to fit for armor or easy to fit for shields, you've effectively just curb stomped its ability to fit its racially native armor tank.

Don't do that.

The Cynabal I'm more indifferent about, I feel its had a relative ease of fitting that few ships ever got, however since a Cynaball fit with a cloak has a higher scan res than a vaga without a cloak I find it odd that you went after its Power Grid.


Actually i disagree completly - complelty ******** dps of Vigilant combined with actually VERY good tank + 2x 90% webs was way over top. Maybe time to make decision - dps or tank ... because this ship had too much going for it. Fitting neutrons 24/7 without losing any utility or tank was rather disgusting on this ship.

If vigilants will end up flying with 1600plate again and 2x 90% webs mwding around ... at least i hope they will do this with electrons.

On the other hand Cynabal actually had only speed/agility and fittings making it so good boat. Now you can forget about silly but funny concept of Arty Cyna.

Edit i just have open eft with fit of "balanced" Vigilant:
few numbers to throw in :
999 dps with void oh - no implants just all V. YES ALMOST 1000 dps - with hammerheads - because why not with 2x 90% webs. With hobs its still 939 dps ... if you fancy to have also flight of hornets 300,
50,626 ehp
1489 cold speed mwd
2x 90% webs
I'm all for fun and unique AND powerful pirate ships. But that one was about to be cut a bit. Glad it happend. For me it did not get enough nerfs.
gawrshmapooo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2014-04-07 23:32:14 UTC
Capqu wrote:
phantasm is going to be the best ahac ever made


☻~The Phantasm: Being a better AHAC than your actual AHAC~☻

I sell combat boosters of every strength and type. Message me to get your edge.