These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hide Employment History
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sammy Jenkins
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-07 13:42:27 UTC
Hello and on very beginning sorry for my bad english. Smile

I know that this subject was talked before in some old threads, but I didn't see any good reasons not to change this whole Employment History system.

Now EH is visible to everyone. This is simply not realistic and...stupid.
When I see someone walking on the street, I don't know who he is and what is his history right? The same should be in game.
Now, people are making some decisions regarding to opponent EH which is not good both to new players (oh look! he is a newbie so it is easy target!) or experienced players (hey! this guy probably have some good skills so I will not attack - important for some griefs or just for combat The more your opponent knows about you and your skills before fight, the worse your fight will be).

There were some people saying that they need to know who the guy is before he join their corp and this is absolutely true and right.
Solution is easy, logic and simple.
Let's make an option to choose, like with kill rights. You can choose to share KR with certain character, with corp, with everybody.The same should be with EH, so when people need chack your background, they can do it when both sides agree.

Just an idea, but imo it should be like this from the start.

Please share your thoughts about it.

Thank You.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#2 - 2014-04-07 13:59:36 UTC
No, it's like a resume. People can contact your former boss if they wish or see how often you jump corps. Hiding it would make an easier job for awox crews which already prey on people that jump multiple corps in a day, other awox teams just look for that 1 über kill usually in an alliance in low or null, the highsec guys don't want to whisk being teamed up against to lose so the have alt logi and keep the ability to run away and dock after they jump a mining team so they can say they don't lose ships in pvp.

So no, already not enough trust in eve.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#3 - 2014-04-07 14:45:20 UTC
Sammy Jenkins wrote:
Let's make an option to choose, like with kill rights. You can choose to share KR with certain character, with corp, with everybody.The same should be with EH, so when people need chack your background, they can do it when both sides agree.

Anyone with any degree of common sense while handling recruiting does a background check on a character, including API access. Turning off access to people's employment history is a small bump in the road as any good recruiter is going to require access to it regardless. Why waste the dev resources on something that most people are going to turn around and say "hey, that's nice...show me or you're not getting in, I don't care if you 'agree' or not."

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Sammy Jenkins
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-04-07 15:49:58 UTC
Agondray wrote:
No, it's like a resume.


That is true. But you don't walk with your resume stick on your forehead right?
It's yours, it's private and you show it to the people when you want or need to.

Agondray wrote:
People can contact your former boss if they wish or see how often you jump corps. Hiding it would make an easier job for awox crews which already prey on people that jump multiple corps in a day,


I don't want to hide in completely.
For recruitment process things will probably stay the same - you want to join our corp = we have to see your 'resume'. Simple.

Lykouleon wrote:
Anyone with any degree of common sense while handling recruiting does a background check on a character, including API access. Turning off access to people's employment history is a small bump in the road as any good recruiter is going to require access to it regardless.


explanation as above

I think that most of the people just used to the way EH is because it was always like that.
But really, please try to imagine that EH from the beginning of EVE was like your CV and you show it, when you need it to. Suddenly thay make a change and say: "hey! now your EH will be visible to everyone!". I bet that lots of people wouldn't agree to that.

I don't really see any good sides of the way EH is right now.
Argument with recruiting process is not good, because for that things will not change at all.

Regards.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#5 - 2014-04-08 00:42:15 UTC
Sammy Jenkins wrote:
I think that most of the people just used to the way EH is because it was always like that.
But really, please try to imagine that EH from the beginning of EVE was like your CV and you show it, when you need it to. Suddenly thay make a change and say: "hey! now your EH will be visible to everyone!". I bet that lots of people wouldn't agree to that.

"Hey, I'm hiding my CV!"
"Well, I'm not hiring you unless I see your CV."
"Well I'm not going to show it to you."
"Okay, you're not hired. Next."

Again, its pointless to hide a character's employment history on some silly belief that people will "agree" that it should be shown. Everyone with half a brain cell will require it and therefore it's a complete waste of time.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Sammy Jenkins
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-04-08 07:57:10 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
Again, its pointless to hide a character's employment history on some silly belief that people will "agree" that it should be shown. Everyone with half a brain cell will require it and therefore it's a complete waste of time.


Again, no.
Maybe for you EH is ONLY for recruitement process, so you are right - changing it for this is pointless, because (like I wrote before) nothing will change in that matter.
The problem is that EH affects lot of other things in EVE. And it affect it in bad way.

Example.

We have to options:

1. you are new player - opponents know you are weak = BAD FOR YOU

2. you are old player
a) with lots of skills - opponents expect you have big skills and they are right = they are prepared better for combat you = BAD FOR YOU
b) with no skills (you've had some break in playing or whatever) - opponents expect you have big skills. They are wrong but they come prepared better for fight - BAD FOR YOU.

I can't see any good sides of how EH works right know and no one gave any good argument so far to keep it this way.

Regards.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#7 - 2014-04-14 23:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
The should do away with the history altogether, it doesnt fit well with the game's core concepts of take a risk and deal with the consequences. If you want to add someone to your corp / alliance you take a risk but gain a potential reward.

Also, if some group spends 2 months making a awox group and you take them in, then they put in the time to gank your ships and should be rewarded for their efforts.

I know most people see the history as you dealing with the consequences of your actions, but you cannot change names in this game so if they awox you then make a note and dont invite them again.

Compare this to the market place and I think you might see my point better, I have no idea who screwed me out of a few million the other day because markets dont list anything about who is manipulating them, this fits well with what this game is about.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#8 - 2014-04-15 00:28:13 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
The should do away with the history altogether, it doesnt fit well with the game's core concepts of take a risk and deal with the consequences. If you want to add someone to your corp / alliance you take a risk but gain a potential reward.

Also, if some group spends 2 months making a awox group and you take them in, then they put in the time to gank your ships and should be rewarded for their efforts.

I know most people see the history as you dealing with the consequences of your actions, but you cannot change names in this game so if they awox you then make a note and dont invite them again.

Compare this to the market place and I think you might see my point better, I have no idea who screwed me out of a few million the other day because markets dont list anything about who is manipulating them, this fits well with what this game is about.


Corp history has EVERYTHING to do with Consequences for your Actions. If you AWOX, Steal, or act like a jackass, the corp history allows your potentially new corp to ask your old corp what type of fuckup you are!

Also, you can see who you bought an item from after you made a purchase. I'm also a fan of making financial analysis agents (think locator agents to follow isk movement between players).


Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2014-04-15 00:31:34 UTC

Employment history is used to identify alts, it is used to estimate a character's historical activities, and is used to identify their associates.

Sure, this may be bad for you, but so what.

Also, a high-sp character doesn't equate to a competent player. And a low SP character can beat a high SP character when they know what they are doing!

Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2014-04-15 00:38:55 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Employment history is used to identify alts, it is used to estimate a character's historical activities, and is used to identify their associates.

Sure, this may be bad for you, but so what.

Also, a high-sp character doesn't equate to a competent player. And a low SP character can beat a high SP character when they know what they are doing!

So much this.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#11 - 2014-04-20 08:17:45 UTC
No way, absolutely no! As said, it's a resume or a rap sheet. Pick who you associate with carefully. And for some, it's a badge of Pride and Identity.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#12 - 2014-04-21 15:30:36 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
The should do away with the history altogether, it doesnt fit well with the game's core concepts of take a risk and deal with the consequences.

It fits perfectly.

Your history is the consequences of the risk you take by trying to infiltrate a corporation or alliance.

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

If you want to add someone to your corp / alliance you take a risk but gain a potential reward.

Yes, and the risk is adding a male donkey to your group, and having also having your organisation's name listed in the corp history of the Equidae in question.

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Also, if some group spends 2 months making a awox group and you take them in, then they put in the time to gank your ships and should be rewarded for their efforts.

They are, by getting a boost in recognition amongst their kin, possibly some tears and by having their actions verifiable by people who bothers to read the corporate history and contacting previous corpies (or plain using google).

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

I know most people see the history as you dealing with the consequences of your actions, but you cannot change names in this game so if they awox you then make a note and dont invite them again.

Compare this to the market place and I think you might see my point better, I have no idea who screwed me out of a few million the other day because markets dont list anything about who is manipulating them, this fits well with what this game is about.

Every person that you've had any market transaction with is listed in your journal, together with it's employment history.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#13 - 2014-04-22 21:59:41 UTC
no, bears have already gotten standings to disappear from public view. employment history is here to stay.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#14 - 2014-04-26 17:16:52 UTC
I'm not sure 'carebears' asked for pilots standings with NPC corps to be invisible. Personally I always found it interesting and useful for many reasons to be able to read other pilots standings with NPC corporations.

I have a feeling CCP want to get rid of standings entirely and NPC corporations as well. I think it might be a good idea for capsuleers to only be able to be members of NPC corporations for a limited time and not to be able to rejoin them afterwards. But I wouldn't want to see that part of New Eden (NPC corporations.) eliminated from the game entirely. I'm afraid it's a case of dumbing down of the game again. Sad

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#15 - 2014-05-09 20:29:34 UTC
And then policy changes to reject anyone who would hide their employment history out of hand.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-14 13:23:15 UTC
The OP is arguing for "realism" being that in the real world, you don't have your resume printed on your shirt.

If we're looking at realism, EVE takes place in a future with spaceships and FTL communication. Hence it isn't that wild that someone would be able to put your name into a computer and pull up your employment info.

Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services

Pre-made spreadsheets available covering market, manufacturing and more!

Custom requests welcome!

Sheet Screenshots
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-05-18 11:57:38 UTC
I can see this if other changes come along as well.

1) API gives the info. This already happens and any outside sites would retain this ability.

2) Use of a Locator Agent gives these details - you're effectively hiring a detective and the details should provide standings with NPC groups as well as your "resume"/employment history.

I have no problems with people having a bit of privacy about such things as long as the details are available if one pays for them in-game.

Also, the API and locator functions should provide a reference of some sort if a character "switched accounts". Not any account details, just the fact "something" happened which indicates this fact.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#18 - 2014-05-18 19:26:08 UTC
The only reason you want to hide your employment history is because at some stage, you signed up with people that closed doors to you moving forward based purely on their reputation.

Live with the consequences of the employment options you make.

Player driven gameplay working as intended.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!