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[news] Ishukone actions called into question after further talks with

Author
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#41 - 2014-04-05 21:32:47 UTC
On Behalf of Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, Office of Public Relations;

Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive remains committed to furthering the goals and aspirations of Ishukone in the border region of Syndicate. We would like to ensure our customers within Tri-Region State, Fourth District, Federal, and Syndicate territories that we will indeed stay the course as indicated by Chief Executive Mens Reppola.

However, the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive would also like to stress the importance of cooperation with the Chief Executive Panel, and caution against any belligerent stance or attitudes taken when addressing concerns issued by the CEP. It is our belief that Cooperation should be the model of business when dealing with the CEP just as much as it is when dealing with the Federation.

Thank You and Best Regards,

Katrina Oniseki

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#42 - 2014-04-06 00:25:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Tuulinen, haven't you yourself lamented how the others of the big eight forced Ishukone into the cold? The black sheep is of your making, and you've said as much before. Now, after ostracizing Ishukone for its rejection of the Provists, you use that same mistrust to justify investigations into Ishukone's dealings.

Do you really want to push Ishukone further away?


The situation is what it is, Priano-haani. I completely agree that Ishukone were pushed, but having a troubled past doesn't mean someone gets a free-pass.

Pretty much in agreement, kirjuun. What happens here will be defined by three factors...
Whether the intent of the investigation is genuine, or a purely political agenda.
Whether those doing the investigation have already made up their minds to find wrongdoing, even if there is none.
Whether the other Okusaikan intend to pursue a means to prolong the current conflict.

I can understand a degree of paranoia, but if the investigation is conducted with genuine intent, and turns up nothing out of order, then KK and their bloc will have lost the last excuse they've got to balk at negotiating. After that, I won't have any pity at all if they get left behind for refusing to close the deal.

As it is, I welcome any and all actual concern on behalf of agents of the CEP, without reservation or worry.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-04-06 00:26:17 UTC
I don't think that any of us who consider this suspicion to be unwarranted and wearisome are suggesting that the CEP should be defied or brushed off. Of course cooperation is the appropriate response.

It's also a response that shouldn't be needed in the first place.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-04-06 02:15:36 UTC
The other Megacorps are just jealous that Ishukone is getting ready to make metric ****-tons of ISK by getting closer to the biggest economic powerhouse in New Eden.

Put it this way. You targeted, ridiculed, and beat Ishukone brutally during the rise and reign of Heth. You probably would of had them completely eliminated if given the time and the chance. Now that they are back on top, you are unbelievably butthurt.

Caldari Liberals serve the Caldari. Caldari patriots serve only their corporation.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2014-04-06 02:20:59 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Caldari Liberals serve the Caldari. Caldari patriots serve only their corporation.


With the best will in the world, you do not understand either the Caldari nor the Patriot bloc.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-04-06 02:28:09 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Caldari Liberals serve the Caldari. Caldari patriots serve only their corporation.


With the best will in the world, you do not understand either the Caldari nor the Patriot bloc.


I understand them a lot more than you would think good sir. But if you're going to ask me who is serving the greater good more. It's going to be the Liberals. Trying to ease tensions and stop people from dying is certainly a more utilitarian choice to make at this time. This is especially true after it's become clear that we really don't intend on destroying all of you.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#47 - 2014-04-06 03:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Fred, we all serve the State in our own way. I'm Liberal, Pieters Patriot, yet neither of us have ever truly questioned if the other was doing their part. We know better. What we have going on here is a matter of corporate culture clashing, and politicking boardroom seat warmers raising a fuss, not the Patriot bloc as a whole choosing their Okusaikan over the State.

While there are, and always will be, exceptions, I do think that the majority of the Patriot bloc, largely represented by the common men and women of the affiliated Okusaikan, put the State first. Don't take what happens in this cesspit to be representative of any one bloc of Caldari.

In regards to Ishukone, the facts speak for themselves. That's a matter far above my pay grade, but if one KK denizen can call an Ishie "kirjuun", then others can. It's a matter of individuals, below a certain level.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2014-04-06 04:02:52 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Caldari Liberals serve the Caldari. Caldari patriots serve only their corporation.


With the best will in the world, you do not understand either the Caldari nor the Patriot bloc.


I understand them a lot more than you would think good sir. But if you're going to ask me who is serving the greater good more. It's going to be the Liberals. Trying to ease tensions and stop people from dying is certainly a more utilitarian choice to make at this time. This is especially true after it's become clear that we really don't intend on destroying all of you.


See, the very fact that you said "If you're going to ask me..." uniquely showcases the problem here, Fred. I forget which of the philosophers once said that "Better an honest war than a dishonest peace." but it remains true that getting into a peace on terms that aren't sustainable over the long term is actually highly damaging.

Ishukone is negotiating with an aggressive foreign power towards unknown ends. This makes people nervous. You might think you like Ishukone more because of the tenor of their PR, but never forget that first, last and always they are a Caldari Okusaiken. They might look more like you than we do, but they are not you.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#49 - 2014-04-06 10:48:56 UTC
During the State Executor times there were a lot of cries for the CEP. Control and government through it would be just, necessary, and above all heiian.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-04-06 11:31:56 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Suorsa, would you gladly subject KK's books and operations to a thorough CEP review?

By this, I mean that this will hamper normal operations. A motivated political actor, what's more, will always find some irregularity to present as the damning evidence of whatever he or she pleases.

I expect to see mole hills made into the shape of the Kaalakiota Peaks.


I would have no choice in the matter, as such whether I would gladly submit KK to any review is irrelevant. If I were in these circumstances this would be water off the duck's back as I know that I have no control over the internal politics of the State and will not delude myself into thinking otherwise.

I would suggest you calm down and let things run their course, your persecution complex is showing. As I said previously, no wrongdoing, nothing to fear.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-04-06 11:55:51 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Caldari Liberals serve the Caldari. Caldari patriots serve only their corporation.


No, that's unfair. Both serve the State, it's just that there are serious disagreements about how the State is best served.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2014-04-06 13:55:52 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Why are the State and Federation still at war, hmmmmmm?


Federation still occupies almost half of our homeworld.


Actually the Federation administers less than half the planet, Mordu's Legion police it.

Lets not forget two small facts here either, like it or not the Caldari abandoned the planet in favour of New Caldari Prime and secondly there is a significant Gallente population living on the planet. Both sides have tried sole control of the planet and failed and so far this latest attempt seems to be working.

Highlander might have been a terrible loss of life on both sides but given that Heth was a few neurons short of a synapse especially in the last few months of his reign I think the Federation did the right thing in the end.

With the way Ishukone has been treated by the rest of the State for the last several years I wouldn't be that surprised if it turned out they were discussing leaving the State and joining the Federation. Stranger things have happened.

It would also be nice if the rest of the CEP backed down a bit apologised to Ishukone about the fuss they made over the last lot of talks only for it to turn out to be for the dedication of a memorial to those that died during Highlander.
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-04-06 14:07:54 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:

With the way Ishukone has been treated by the rest of the State for the last several years I wouldn't be that surprised if it turned out they were discussing leaving the State and joining the Federation. Stranger things have happened.

Awful idea. They'd just kill all of them.

I mean, on an abstract level it'd be utterly hilarious and morbidly ironic for the State to wind up committing the exact same crime that caused them to form their own sovereign empire and hold a centuries-long grudge in the first place, but there's nothing funny about the savagery that would be inflicted on these hypothetical separatists.
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2014-04-06 14:11:30 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

With the way Ishukone has been treated by the rest of the State for the last several years I wouldn't be that surprised if it turned out they were discussing leaving the State and joining the Federation. Stranger things have happened.

Awful idea. They'd just kill all of them.

I mean, on an abstract level it'd be utterly hilarious and morbidly ironic for the State to wind up committing the exact same crime that caused them to form their own sovereign empire and hold a centuries-long grudge in the first place, but there's nothing funny about the savagery that would be inflicted on these hypothetical separatists.


Very true but in recent history the Federation, the mortal enemy of the State, has treated Ishukone far better then the other Megacorps.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#55 - 2014-04-06 14:11:40 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:

Lets not forget two small facts here either, like it or not the Caldari abandoned the planet in favour of New Caldari Prime


Your understanding of history is critically flawed.

Katrina Oniseki

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2014-04-06 14:19:07 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

Lets not forget two small facts here either, like it or not the Caldari abandoned the planet in favour of New Caldari Prime


Your understanding of history is critically flawed.


So the State didn't mass evac its population and move its capital to New Caldari?

The statement does removal all historical context from the events but essentially the State left the planet willingly or not.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#57 - 2014-04-06 15:19:30 UTC
I have been doing my best to not comment on this topic, given the nature of employment as a Lai Dai subcontractor for Ishukone. I apologize if I'm unusually terse or cautious; it's entirely due to that fact.

Mr. Max, it isn't the history between our peoples that propagates this rift. It's the attitudes and beliefs behind statements such as those you have just made.

May Ishukone be a conduit to a lasting and just peace with the Gallente, for all Caldari.
Goa Chai
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-04-06 15:38:07 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

Lets not forget two small facts here either, like it or not the Caldari abandoned the planet in favour of New Caldari Prime


Your understanding of history is critically flawed.


So the State didn't mass evac its population and move its capital to New Caldari?

The statement does removal all historical context from the events but essentially the State left the planet willingly or not.

Would you rather they have stood in one spot to make it easier for Federation battleships to bomb them from orbit?

Considering the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the bombing of Caldari Prime their evacuation and settlement of New Caldari was to be expected, at the time they stood zero chance of defending against a focused planetary assault from Federation forces and faced with a situation like that naturally you cut your losses and attempt to ensure the survival of your people.

I even support the actions of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba, were the roles reversed I would have flown a carrier right down Caldari Prime's throat as well, one does what one must when their people are being wiped out and a single life can ensure the survival of millions more and thus the propagation of future generations.

Than again that single life sacrifice thing wouldn't really be a problem for us now would it.. Twisted
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2014-04-06 16:15:23 UTC
Goa Chai wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Rainus Max wrote:

Lets not forget two small facts here either, like it or not the Caldari abandoned the planet in favour of New Caldari Prime


Your understanding of history is critically flawed.


So the State didn't mass evac its population and move its capital to New Caldari?

The statement does removal all historical context from the events but essentially the State left the planet willingly or not.

Would you rather they have stood in one spot to make it easier for Federation battleships to bomb them from orbit?

Considering the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the bombing of Caldari Prime their evacuation and settlement of New Caldari was to be expected, at the time they stood zero chance of defending against a focused planetary assault from Federation forces and faced with a situation like that naturally you cut your losses and attempt to ensure the survival of your people.

I even support the actions of Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba, were the roles reversed I would have flown a carrier right down Caldari Prime's throat as well, one does what one must when their people are being wiped out and a single life can ensure the survival of millions more and thus the propagation of future generations.

Than again that single life sacrifice thing wouldn't really be a problem for us now would it.. Twisted


Of course not, I would have preferred the Caldari and the Federation resolved their differences and remained together. Evacuation was the logical choice after all the pride and idiotic moves on both sides. I don't deny the Federation made some poor choices back then but at the same time I also know the Caldari are party to blame. Going into the Future both sides need to realise this and accept that peace is impossible if one side controls Caldari Prime. The opportunity we have now is the best that has ever presented itself.

My original point still stands however, calling the current situation a Federation occupation is wrong. It is administered between the two empires and policed by Mordu's Legion. In the past I can see it being seen as an occupation but at the same time after Caldari left the Federation had an abandoned world with a significant Gallente population - what would the state have done if the roles were reversed?

I don't care what the situation is but supporting what Toba and Noir did is wrong and if you support the actions of one you support the actions of the other. In both cases they targeted civilians and if you really want to stoop to that level I'm sure Sansha or the Blood Raiders would happily take you in.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#60 - 2014-04-06 16:16:53 UTC
Like I said, critically flawed.

Katrina Oniseki