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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[PIE] Kameira Program

Author
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#141 - 2014-05-18 22:53:05 UTC
Oh goody, he's back. He and Nauplius need to have a long chat. I am sure that will go well.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2014-05-18 23:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Ah, so it's a voluntary program these days open to free citizens of the Empire? What's the age of enlistment set at by the way and are there also Amarrian, Khanid, and Ni-Kunni, Kameiras now?


You are never content with the simple answer.

Just because we are born into it does not make it slavery, Holders are born to their stations.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#143 - 2014-05-19 02:09:57 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Ah, so it's a voluntary program these days open to free citizens of the Empire? What's the age of enlistment set at by the way and are there also Amarrian, Khanid, and Ni-Kunni, Kameiras now?


You are never content with the simple answer.

Just because we are born into it does not make it slavery, Holders are born to their stations.


Yes, and so are Syrikos Hounds born a Syrikos Hound. A fate they perhaps share with the Kameiras is that without a master to provide them guidance they are liable to bark howling mad at the moon as much as chase their own tail in confusion.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#144 - 2014-05-19 03:25:52 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Ah, so it's a voluntary program these days open to free citizens of the Empire? What's the age of enlistment set at by the way and are there also Amarrian, Khanid, and Ni-Kunni, Kameiras now?


You are never content with the simple answer.

Just because we are born into it does not make it slavery, Holders are born to their stations.


And in the Empire, many slaves are born into their slavery. This somehow makes them... not slaves, apparently.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2014-05-19 12:18:05 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Yes, and so are Syrikos Hounds born a Syrikos Hound. A fate they perhaps share with the Kameiras is that without a master to provide them guidance they are liable to bark howling mad at the moon as much as chase their own tail in confusion.


So it is not answers you want but to weakly attempt to once again throw a barbed remark or statement with the intent of ...what? Hurting feelings? Disenfranchising or harming reputation in some way?

No doubt you will follow up with how you were just idly commenting and meant nothing by it.
Or maybe, you will get to the point already.

Jinari Otsito wrote:
And in the Empire, many slaves are born into their slavery. This somehow makes them... not slaves, apparently.


Are you aware that while all Rifters are Frigates not all Frigates are Rifters?

You will have to try much, much, harder to twist meaning into my words.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#146 - 2014-05-20 14:07:39 UTC
Ayallah wrote:

So it is not answers you want but to weakly attempt to once again throw a barbed remark or statement with the intent of ...what? Hurting feelings? Disenfranchising or harming reputation in some way?

No doubt you will follow up with how you were just idly commenting and meant nothing by it.
Or maybe, you will get to the point already.


I already got to the point dear, but I fear while your Kameiras training might have taught you much it failed to inculcate adequate reading comprehension. What you appear to see as a barbed remarks are nothing of the sort for I spare them only for opponents I would consider of intelligence or importance - and in which I consider you having failed both criteria. No barbs but rather what I would say was rather blatant derision. Deserved I would say if only when having read the following:

Ayallah wrote:

You used the word faith so I assumed your objections were religious in nature. i.e. that slavery is a logical outcome of the Amarrian faith, which it is not.


Because discussion based solely on assumption and not what is said is worthy only of flippant disregard.

Now that said, my curiosity as to the correlations with former Kameiras and their appearing in the Republic has already been satiated by another party with knowledge on the matter. I suppose it really was as simple as it being either those rejected from the program or those with so little Faith in the Empire, so your value has expired.

As for an interest in disenfranchising or harming your reputation in some way, I really wouldn't have much interest since you appear to be more than competent in that regard already.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-05-20 14:50:31 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
And in the Empire, many slaves are born into their slavery. This somehow makes them... not slaves, apparently.


Are you aware that while all Rifters are Frigates not all Frigates are Rifters?

You will have to try much, much, harder to twist meaning into my words.


You're doing that thing again where you say something which bears no relation to the point being made and then act like you've won.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2014-05-21 13:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I already got to the point dear, but I fear while your Kameiras training might have taught you much it failed to inculcate adequate reading comprehension. What you appear to see as a barbed remarks are nothing of the sort for I spare them only for opponents I would consider of intelligence or importance - and in which I consider you having failed both criteria. No barbs but rather what I would say was rather blatant derision. Deserved I would say if only when having read the following:
Because discussion based solely on assumption and not what is said is worthy only of flippant disregard.

Now that said, my curiosity as to the correlations with former Kameiras and their appearing in the Republic has already been satiated by another party with knowledge on the matter. I suppose it really was as simple as it being either those rejected from the program or those with so little Faith in the Empire, so your value has expired.

As for an interest in disenfranchising or harming your reputation in some way, I really wouldn't have much interest since you appear to be more than competent in that regard already.


I knew you were going for option three.
And Veik, you know that slaves cannot read.

But I am glad whoever gave you your (wrong) answer gave you an answer. As weak a premise as that is for you coming here with the intent to start a fight, at least you have that to take back to Black Rise or wherever you live and be content.

Stitcher wrote:
You're doing that thing again where you say something which bears no relation to the point being made and then act like you've won.


You are doing that thing where you jump in others conversations and declare how right you are about something.

Lets call it even so I can drink in peace.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Alice Cont
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2014-05-21 14:20:02 UTC
RAEC fully approve of this and show our support to the Praetoria.

On behalf of the Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps, we now offer our security force consisting of roughly 70 Kameiras to join the PIE directorate in this matter.
Contracted, fed up and ready to start service at given time.

I hope that we will continue strenghten our imperial bonds, Captain Aldrith Shutaq.

Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps [RAEC] - Derelik Manufacture and Retail Acting CEO and Head of Human Resources

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#150 - 2014-05-21 14:30:28 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
I knew you were going for option three.
And Veik, you know that slaves cannot read.


Nonsense. Many are quite literate.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2014-05-21 15:20:58 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
And Veik, you know that slaves cannot read.

I imagine this makes life for the vast number of Sebiestor slaves employed as scribes and clerks in the Amarrian Civil Service even more difficult than it already is.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#152 - 2014-05-21 15:47:18 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
You are doing that thing where you jump in others conversations and declare how right you are about something.


If it was a private conversation, you'd be having it in a private comms channel. The IGS' status as a public discussion forum means that it's not "others' conversation" it's merely a conversation in which I have not yet ventured an opinion.

In any case, it's not about my being right, it's about your being intellectually dishonest. I see bullsh**, I call bullshi**. Harden the frak up.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2014-05-21 16:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Samira Kernher wrote:
Nonsense. Many are quite literate.


Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I imagine this makes life for the vast number of Sebiestor slaves employed as scribes and clerks in the Amarrian Civil Service even more difficult than it already is.


Reading and writing sarcasm however, is much more difficult.

Stitcher wrote:
If it was a private conversation, you'd be having it in a private comms channel. The IGS' status as a public discussion forum means that it's not "others' conversation" it's merely a conversation in which I have not yet ventured an opinion.

In any case, it's not about my being right, it's about your being intellectually dishonest. I see bullsh**, I call bullshi**. Harden the frak up.


So you agree that by nature of being born into the position that all Kameiras are slaves?

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#154 - 2014-05-21 22:22:23 UTC
Ayallah wrote:

So you agree that by nature of being born into the position that all Kameiras are slaves?


I have to admit that has always been my assumption. But If you believe otherwise I'm happy to read what you feel their status is.

What I do understand them to be is fanatically loyal to the armed forces of the Empire. So I am a little surprised to know of at least three who are now capsuleers. And who don't fly in service of the Amarr.

I'm sure all of you have your reasons. It just does mean you'll be rather rare specimens.

Makes me wonder how many ex Vaklear capsuleers are out there.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-05-22 01:04:48 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
I have to admit that has always been my assumption. But If you believe otherwise I'm happy to read what you feel their status is.

What I do understand them to be is fanatically loyal to the armed forces of the Empire. So I am a little surprised to know of at least three who are now capsuleers. And who don't fly in service of the Amarr.

I'm sure all of you have your reasons. It just does mean you'll be rather rare specimens.

Makes me wonder how many ex Vaklear capsuleers are out there.


I know of one. And for us? I know of five for sure maybe as many as seven.




And you never stop flying in service to Amarr.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-05-22 01:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Ayallah wrote:
So you agree that by nature of being born into the position that all Kameiras are slaves?


I agree that all Kameiras are slaves: the factors that make them slaves involve more than simply having been born to it.

The definition of "Slave" is not "Inherited a job."

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2014-05-22 03:33:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Stitcher wrote:
I agree that all Kameiras are slaves: the factors that make them slaves involve more than simply having been born to it.

The definition of "Slave" is not "Inherited a job."


It is far far from a job. We are not your tube born, our lives are not jobs.
What we do have in common with them is not being slaves.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#158 - 2014-05-22 04:09:12 UTC
To be fair, it's not necessarily the case that we're batched for a specific vocational endgoal. Many tubechildren are created from the material of two pre-chosen donors and then merely tweaked to remove any undesirable traits.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#159 - 2014-05-22 06:05:34 UTC
I distinctly remember a colourful military person of some sort - no idea what rank he had, your typical drill sergeant type - refer to his tubechild students as "recycled cow abortions stirred together in a bucket with a hole in it". The laughter from his... they call it platoons? I guess? The laughter was thunderous.

I sometimes wonder just how little I understand of your upbringing, no matter how many of you I meet and talk to.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#160 - 2014-05-22 06:23:10 UTC
I... You know, it's tough to explain. The State is, in many respects, as animistic as the Matari Shamans and here we are, probably the least 'natural' human beings apart from the Jove and the True Slaves in the Cluster. Now, I've never been spat at and called an abomination in the State, but I'm sure that me and mine must make some people a little uncomfortable.

The humour is just a way of coping with being different, I guess. It'll all change, for the worst I believe, as the Tubechild program moves out of serial batch production and becomes the province of the incredibly wealthy to engineer the perfect child successors.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.