These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Expel member at next down time

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-04-02 15:51:09 UTC
So my corp had an awoxer who now refuses to leave, and we can't expel because, of course, he's afk cloaked in space somewhere. Instead of trying to beat him logging in at downtime every day, my suggestion is to add an option "Expel member at next downtime." Expelling someone in this manner would send them a notification so they would have some advance notice. I really do not understand why we should be beholden to this guy (before you ask, he had no history of awoxing and nothing that would indicate such motives in his API) and utterly powerless when it comes to the management of our own corporation.
Mickael Tokoyaski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-04-02 18:35:53 UTC
Or you could just bait and kill him. Apparently he wants your corp more than you do.

Adding this feature would protect people to lazy to protect themselves.

So NO!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-04-02 18:44:30 UTC

I mostly agree with the Op.

I'm not sure I agree with the "Kick at the next DT", but I certainly believe that kicking a player from your corp shouldn't be based on whether you can log in quick enough. This is a terrible mechanic, as it really it is incredibly biased by timezone, and doesn't benefit the game in any tangible manner.

I'd think an compromise could be a 48 hour boot period, or something of that nature.
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-04-02 18:57:59 UTC
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:
Or you could just bait and kill him. Apparently he wants your corp more than you do.

Adding this feature would protect people to lazy to protect themselves.

So NO!


How can I bait and kill him when he is AFK?
WouldYouEver HaveSexWith aGoat
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-04-02 19:00:38 UTC
This really needs to be changed. +1
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-04-02 19:04:28 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I mostly agree with the Op.

I'm not sure I agree with the "Kick at the next DT", but I certainly believe that kicking a player from your corp shouldn't be based on whether you can log in quick enough. This is a terrible mechanic, as it really it is incredibly biased by timezone, and doesn't benefit the game in any tangible manner.

I'd think an compromise could be a 48 hour boot period, or something of that nature.


That seems like a fair compromise.

The time zone issue is a good point too. In my case it means I have to wake up at 4:30am to try to get him.
Mickael Tokoyaski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-04-02 19:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
He isn't afk when he logs in. And surely if he awoxxed you then he is probably active during the day at some point. So if you tried baiting him around the time he killed a corp mate last time he might be tempted to spring the trap.

Or you could give in to his demands (medal, payment, etc.).

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-04-02 19:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:
He isn't afk when he logs in. And surely if he awoxxed you then he is probably active during the day at some point. So if you tried baiting him around the time he killed a corp mate last time he might be tempted to spring the trap.

Or you could give in to his demands (medal, payment, etc.).

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

The fact is that he logs in, warps to a safe, goes AFK. Is there anything I can do about this? The answer is no, there is not unless I roll the dice every morning at 4:30am, hoping to get him before he logs in. Or I could disband the corporation and reform it without him. That's totally ridiculous.

As I stated previously, he had no history of awoxing and nothing in his API indicated as such. Should I then refuse to accept anyone into the corp, because there is a non-zero chance that he is an awoxer?

I'm not asking to be protected from awoxers, I'm asking to be able to kick them once they unveil themselves. I don't even care if I have to wait a couple of days, as long as it's possible to do. I don't understand why this is too much to ask.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2014-04-02 21:08:13 UTC
Maxoss Ataru wrote:
I'm not asking to be protected from awoxers, I'm asking to be able to kick them once they unveil themselves. I don't even care if I have to wait a couple of days, as long as it's possible to do. I don't understand why this is too much to ask.

This is actually a very reasonable request, so +1 for me. The reason AWOXers are objecting us that they wouldn't be able to hold you for ransom indefinitely - as downtime can actually be advantageous when it coincides with their prime time.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mickael Tokoyaski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-04-02 21:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Maxoss Ataru wrote:


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

The fact is that he logs in, warps to a safe, goes AFK. Is there anything I can do about this? The answer is no, there is not unless I roll the dice every morning at 4:30am, hoping to get him before he logs in. Or I could disband the corporation and reform it without him. That's totally ridiculous.

As I stated previously, he had no history of awoxing and nothing in his API indicated as such. Should I then refuse to accept anyone into the corp, because there is a non-zero chance that he is an awoxer?

I'm not asking to be protected from awoxers, I'm asking to be able to kick them once they unveil themselves. I don't even care if I have to wait a couple of days, as long as it's possible to do. I don't understand why this is too much to ask.


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

If he is afk he can't harm you now can he? The problem is that you can't tell if he is truly afk, so you need to have a plan when he comes back.


Here's what you can do:

1. Give in to his demands
He obviously wants something from you. Otherwise he wouldn't have a reason to stick around. If you cant get him to accept a convo then you will just have to mail him. Swallow your pride and strike up a deal for the terms of his departure.

2. Don't give in
If you or whomever accepted him can't swallow their pride and own up to making the mistake of accepting him and face the consequences then you could always bore him out. If he can't get what he wants he might grow bored and leave. Just ignore him and don't have anyone acknowledge him in corp.

3. Fight back
If giving in to his demands aren't acceptable and you want him out now, then the only other option is to kill him. Get something that he might attack and tank it out. Then get 3-4 other people in the following ships: a blackbird (to jam him out), 1 or 2 beefy cruisers (with the same type of tank), and a Exequror or a Scythe (depending on the beefy cruisers' tank), and face stomp him.


Your proposal is a major nerf to awoxxing. He took the time to scout out your corp for targets, get through a hopefully thorough recruitment process, get accepted, warp to the oblivious target, kill him, and survive any sort of a corp defensive response. He has gotten to this point and will probably now ask for a ransom to leave, but with your changes the people who have best case (failed at defending their corp and have learned their mistakes), or worst case (done nothing and complain about it) can just wait him out and with game mechanics kick him.

This is horrible idea because it rewards corps to lazy/incompetent to defend themselves from an easily avoided/dealt with threat.

Awoxxing is good for the game. It destroys bad corps. Bad corps are one of the biggest threats to player retention. New players look up to their CEO's and older members for guidance and protection. OP's corp didn't provide the latter and is now asking for changes so he doesn't have to deal with getting rid of him.

There are already effective ways of dealing with awoxxers. This proposed idea would harm the game more than it would help it by making awoxxing less meaningful, and give the victims less of a reason to adapt.

HTFU
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#11 - 2014-04-02 21:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:
Maxoss Ataru wrote:


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

The fact is that he logs in, warps to a safe, goes AFK. Is there anything I can do about this? The answer is no, there is not unless I roll the dice every morning at 4:30am, hoping to get him before he logs in. Or I could disband the corporation and reform it without him. That's totally ridiculous.

As I stated previously, he had no history of awoxing and nothing in his API indicated as such. Should I then refuse to accept anyone into the corp, because there is a non-zero chance that he is an awoxer?

I'm not asking to be protected from awoxers, I'm asking to be able to kick them once they unveil themselves. I don't even care if I have to wait a couple of days, as long as it's possible to do. I don't understand why this is too much to ask.


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

If he is afk he can't harm you now can he? The problem is that you can't tell if he is truly afk, so you need to have a plan when he comes back.


Here's what you can do:

1. Give in to his demands
He obviously wants something from you. Otherwise he wouldn't have a reason to stick around. If you cant get him to accept a convo then you will just have to mail him. Swallow your pride and strike up a deal for the terms of his departure.

2. Don't give in
If you or whomever accepted him can't swallow their pride and own up to making the mistake of accepting him and face the consequences then you could always bore him out. If he can't get what he wants he might grow bored and leave. Just ignore him and don't have anyone acknowledge him in corp.

3. Fight back
If giving in to his demands aren't acceptable and you want him out now, then the only other option is to kill him. Get something that he might attack and tank it out. Then get 3-4 other people in the following ships: a blackbird (to jam him out), 1 or 2 beefy cruisers (with the same type of tank), and a Exequror or a Scythe (depending on the beefy cruisers' tank), and face stomp him.


Your proposal is a major nerf to awoxxing. He took the time to scout out your corp for targets, get through a hopefully thorough recruitment process, get accepted, warp to the oblivious target, kill him, and survive any sort of a corp defensive response. He has gotten to this point and will probably now ask for a ransom to leave, but with your changes the people who have best case (failed at defending their corp and have learned their mistakes), or worst case (done nothing and complain about it) can just wait him out and with game mechanics kick him.

This is horrible idea because it rewards corps to lazy/incompetent to defend themselves from an easily avoided/dealt with threat.

Awoxxing is good for the game. It destroys bad corps. Bad corps are one of the biggest threats to player retention. New players look up to their CEO's and older members for guidance and protection. OP's corp didn't provide the latter and is now asking for changes so he doesn't have to deal with getting rid of him.

There are already effective ways of dealing with awoxxers. This proposed idea would harm the game more than it would help it by making awoxxing less meaningful, and give the victims less of a reason to adapt.

HTFU

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

As for the original post, I agree with Arthur that it is a very reasonable request and could potentially find uses beyond taking care of awoxxing. +1 from me
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#12 - 2014-04-02 21:57:04 UTC
I dont see why I have to wait at all. as the CEO of my corp i find it rather dumb that i cant remove people at a moments notice. If your worried about your CEO abusing this mechanic maybe you need a new CEO

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Mickael Tokoyaski
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-04-02 22:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

As for the original post, I agree with Arthur that it is a very reasonable request and could potentially find uses beyond taking care of awoxxing. +1 from me


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

This idea is bad since it gives less of a reason for corps to do background checks since if they mess up the awoxxer will only be around for a few days before he is kicked.

Instead the OP could try out any of the ideas I've listed or beat him to after downtime. The person who awoxxed OP is putting in more effort than the OP is.

Why should his game play be nerfed?
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-04-02 22:21:05 UTC
I agree, CEOs should be able to drop any member at any time.
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-04-02 22:26:16 UTC
Daoden wrote:
I agree, CEOs should be able to drop any member at any time.


For the record, I don't agree with this.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#16 - 2014-04-02 22:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

As for the original post, I agree with Arthur that it is a very reasonable request and could potentially find uses beyond taking care of awoxxing. +1 from me


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

This idea is bad since it gives less of a reason for corps to do background checks since if they mess up the awoxxer will only be around for a few days before he is kicked.

Instead the OP could try out any of the ideas I've listed or beat him to after downtime. The person who awoxxed OP is putting in more effort than the OP is.

Why should his game play be nerfed?

Why should his game play be encouraged?

Why is it such a bad thing for a CEO of a corp to be able to recruit AND expel players? That is kinda what CEO's do after all.

Besides, if he's any good at his chosen "profession" he will not be hampered by such a simple thing as not being a member of that corp anymore. Either he will have bookmarked locations for targets or he will move on to another scam, possibly the worthwhile profession of spamming Jita local and bogging down a server. That's perfectly respectable as well, right?
Maxoss Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-04-02 22:42:43 UTC
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:

Here's what you can do:

1. Give in to his demands
He obviously wants something from you. Otherwise he wouldn't have a reason to stick around. If you cant get him to accept a convo then you will just have to mail him. Swallow your pride and strike up a deal for the terms of his departure.

2. Don't give in
If you or whomever accepted him can't swallow their pride and own up to making the mistake of accepting him and face the consequences then you could always bore him out. If he can't get what he wants he might grow bored and leave. Just ignore him and don't have anyone acknowledge him in corp.

3. Fight back
If giving in to his demands aren't acceptable and you want him out now, then the only other option is to kill him. Get something that he might attack and tank it out. Then get 3-4 other people in the following ships: a blackbird (to jam him out), 1 or 2 beefy cruisers (with the same type of tank), and a Exequror or a Scythe (depending on the beefy cruisers' tank), and face stomp him.

Your proposal is a major nerf to awoxxing. He took the time to scout out your corp for targets, get through a hopefully thorough recruitment process, get accepted, warp to the oblivious target, kill him, and survive any sort of a corp defensive response. He has gotten to this point and will probably now ask for a ransom to leave, but with your changes the people who have best case (failed at defending their corp and have learned their mistakes), or worst case (done nothing and complain about it) can just wait him out and with game mechanics kick him.


Thank you for your ideas.

It is not obvious that he wants anything. I have tried to contact him, but there is no response. He just sits there. I know what system he is in, and I have a scout on the gate, so I will know if he leaves. As such, he is not a threat. However, the fact is that I don't want him there anymore and I'm prevented from removing him except by rolling the dice at 0430, dissolving and reforming the corp, or, as you say "not giving in", which is what I've been doing.

Again, this is not about awoxing. This is about expelling undesirable members who refuse to dock up or log off. I'm the CEO but I have no executive powers to combat this?

Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:

This is horrible idea because it rewards corps to lazy/incompetent to defend themselves from an easily avoided/dealt with threat.

Awoxxing is good for the game. It destroys bad corps. Bad corps are one of the biggest threats to player retention. New players look up to their CEO's and older members for guidance and protection. OP's corp didn't provide the latter and is now asking for changes so he doesn't have to deal with getting rid of him.

There are already effective ways of dealing with awoxxers. This proposed idea would harm the game more than it would help it by making awoxxing less meaningful, and give the victims less of a reason to adapt.


As I have said numerous times, he just logs in and sits there doing nothing. Do you have a way to fight someone who isn't there? Honestly, I would like to know.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-04-02 22:45:02 UTC
Mickael Tokoyaski wrote:
He isn't afk when he logs in.


Oh you can definitely login afk. Scripting an automated login that retries every few seconds is at junior high level of difficulty and probably not even illegal under the EULA.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#19 - 2014-04-02 22:47:54 UTC
It is a very flawed mechanic that you can't boot someone unless they are docked. +1 to fix

No trolling please
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-04-02 23:10:11 UTC
Maxoss Ataru wrote:
So my corp had an awoxer who now refuses to leave, and we can't expel because, of course, he's afk cloaked in space somewhere. Instead of trying to beat him logging in at downtime every day, my suggestion is to add an option "Expel member at next downtime." Expelling someone in this manner would send them a notification so they would have some advance notice. I really do not understand why we should be beholden to this guy (before you ask, he had no history of awoxing and nothing that would indicate such motives in his API) and utterly powerless when it comes to the management of our own corporation.


It's as if he made a clean alt for this purpose and "consequences" in EVE are an illusion without substance.

Hint: In actuality, "consequences" in EVE are an illusion without substance.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
123Next pageLast page