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ESBS - a new bounty system for eve
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Informer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2011-12-22 15:55:35 UTC
The recent change to insurance, where if you are killed by Concord you dont get any insurance, solves this small problem.

As a "Bounty Hunter Concord License" holder, you are in fact enforcing law in the name of Concord and the criminal doesn't get the insurance cash. Big smile
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#42 - 2012-01-12 15:38:57 UTC
bumped, so it can't jump

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#43 - 2012-01-31 18:12:25 UTC
Bump for a good idea!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#44 - 2012-02-02 15:42:10 UTC
same idea here (but it takes only the clone costs into the formula)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=745844

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-02-02 16:05:29 UTC
This is an excellent idea. It is a much more fleshed out version of my own and even takes it a few steps further. I fully support this idea. This should be placed in Assembly Hall.

+1

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-10 15:31:10 UTC
I am NOT bumping this thread. I repeat...this is NOT a bump.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#47 - 2012-02-11 18:59:37 UTC
thanks for bumping fellow spaceship pilots, soon-to-be bounty hunters or hunted people!

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-02-11 19:51:27 UTC
I didn't bump the thread. I clearly stated I did not bump the thread.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Xeron Rich
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2012-02-12 22:22:02 UTC
+1 Keeping this thread alive.

It's a great idea. Everyone knows the bounty system is broken. I'm all for an actual profession to come out of this.
Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-02-13 01:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Overs
I think Blenator's idea works. Interesting how it mimics npc pirate bounties.

Any thoughts about making the bounty system part of the contract system?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#51 - 2012-02-13 12:43:05 UTC
Overs wrote:
I think Blenator's idea works. Interesting how it mimics npc pirate bounties.

Any thoughts about making the bounty system part of the contract system?

this would be an awesome extension. I fully support it, however, i believe we firstly need a solid foundation before we can add such things. I mean.. we all know the current system is broken - it does not work as intended. Adding features to a broken system will cause more problems as its worth.

e.g a few thoughts (based on an eve-style bounty system):
- shiptype specific contracts: kill this guy in his tengu and i double the reward from my wallet
- corp contracts: 10m per hulk/pirate/enemy/whatever, i do not care under what circumstance
- or just: look, i really want to have this guy killed in an expensive ship
- killrights transfer... but this one is complicated to do right

contracts would have to work like that:
- you upload an advertisement
- a few people want to sign the contract
- its now your responsibility to check the people and decide if they can sign (alt alarm!)
- if they sign they can hunt. They should get a special overview icon so that they look cool and the victim has a chance to run.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-02-13 13:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Doubling the bounty because they are in a specific ship would break the "based on ship value" part to prevent the person with the bounty on his head from profiting I think. He would be able to use an alt to take the contract and make money off his own kill. Unless there is a way around that I am not seeing. Would we want the current contract system part of this? I mean...it is mostly used for trade and should remain that way. I think it would work better and maybe even be a little bit of an ISK sink if we had a separate contracting system. Perhaps you go "buy" the kill rights to a bounty from the bounty board for a set amount of ISK for a set amount of time and then get your payout when you get the kill. I am not thinking of a lot of ISK. Maybe a half mill or so...or perhaps base it on the amount of SP the player with the bounty has just like clones work. Multiple people can buy kill rights on the same person and be actively hunting them at the same time. Perhaps even allow bounty hunters to team up and split profits.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#53 - 2012-02-13 14:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
the guy who did set the contract up can decide who signs the contract (e.g he has to sign after that). As i said its his responsibility to check the hunter if he is valid. e.g not an alt. Its more player controlled this way. The normal eve-style system will still work of course. This is only an *optional* add-on to that.

This allows to have payouts which are larger as the ship/pod value to add additional rewards to encourage specific hunters to get the job done faster. edit: If you put put too much on his head... you increase the risk that the victim will put a lot of effort to set up a alt hunter - but that would be a typical eve scam, thats something else as bounty system exploit ;)

current contract system won't be sufficient since it does not support this bi-directional contract signing (like a handshake). It is to anonymous for that task.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Monty Kvaran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-02-13 16:13:41 UTC
Any fix to the bounty system needs to be balanced. The point of the bounty system should be to take revenge on those who have wronged you. Yet some of the ideas discussed in this thread would allow you to arbitrarily grief anyone with a low security status. Compounding this is that many pirates already maintain a high security status by grinding, and that anti pirates often take sec hits trying to fight actual pirates in lowsec.

I should not be able to make an otherwise concord protected target freely shootable in highsec just by paying for a certain bounty. This would just lead to people scouting out ships with high module values, placing a bounty, and blowing it up to collect the modules + some of the bounty they just placed.

I should not be able grief away someone's insurance just by setting a bounty. Every person with a low sec status would end up with a nominal bounty just to grief them, unrelated to why they have the sec status.

Arbitrary restrictions on who can collect a bounty will be totally ineffectual, anyone who really wants to game the system will just find an un-associated alt account/friend to game the system with.

The core idea however is great, and can be really simple: Bounty payout = X% of UNinsured loss of ship and/or pod (up to the amount of bounty placed). Your alt kills you, you still take a loss, and all you accomplish is reducing the bounty, and most pirates will prefer a high bounty anyway as a representation of their pvp prowess.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#55 - 2012-02-13 16:22:40 UTC
Someone will make a gambling establishment and a char with its name and put 500M bounty on it.
Someone will make alt for scamming in Jita and bounty will be placed on his head.

As these chars will never leave the station, your proposal is as broken as the current system.

The only way to fix the bounty system is to remove it.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#56 - 2012-02-13 16:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Someone will make a gambling establishment and a char with its name and put 500M bounty on it.
Someone will make alt for scamming in Jita and bounty will be placed on his head.

and where is the problem? Its a isk sink, nobody would be able to profit. Thats why nobody would do this just get a bounty, since the scamer would not be able to benefit from it. I believe you did not understand the proposal.

@Monty placing bounty on bad people is the point of bounty. If you have a low sec status you will have to live with that while having fun shooting people. Since you are into pvp anyway its even a good way to have more pvp if you have a bounty on your head..

its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Monty Kvaran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-02-13 16:40:58 UTC
Bienator II wrote:

its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people


Highsec wardecs are a two way street. While the deccer usually has an advantage, the target can effectively fight back if they so choose, or just evade the dec. Its not really part of this thread, but I have no problem with a bounty hunter model, where bounties and bounty hunters can freely shoot each other. I do object to proposals that allow a bounty to be shot without any way for the bounty to proactively defend themselves.

Also, security status is a very bad proxy for how "evil" or deserving of a bounty a player is.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#58 - 2012-02-13 16:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
@Bienator

I'm more in favor of contract kill system. It's actually possible now, but without actual contract system, so you must rely on the other party honoring the agreement.

Simply I issue contract for killing someone. I may also put into contract that I will reimburse up to 200M or other amount of damages to mercenaries due to Concord if they're successful. I would be able to demand damage of certain ISK amount, or podding etc.

The contracts wouldn't advertise in CQ anymore, as they aren't bounties.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#59 - 2012-02-13 17:38:16 UTC
Monty Kvaran wrote:
Bienator II wrote:

its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people


Highsec wardecs are a two way street. While the deccer usually has an advantage, the target can effectively fight back if they so choose, or just evade the dec. Its not really part of this thread, but I have no problem with a bounty hunter model, where bounties and bounty hunters can freely shoot each other. I do object to proposals that allow a bounty to be shot without any way for the bounty to proactively defend themselves.


evading decs is just another indicator for a broken system ;) but thats off topic :P


ESBS is simply about fixing the bounty system. It does not change aggression mechanics at all. Why do you mean that the guy with the bounty has no way to defend himself? He has a low sec status and a bounty. Thats it basically.

Current situation: low sec status and a secondary wallet

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#60 - 2012-02-13 17:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Nestara Aldent wrote:
@Bienator

I'm more in favor of contract kill system. It's actually possible now, but without actual contract system, so you must rely on the other party honoring the agreement.

Simply I issue contract for killing someone. I may also put into contract that I will reimburse up to 200M or other amount of damages to mercenaries due to Concord if they're successful. I would be able to demand damage of certain ISK amount, or podding etc.

The contracts wouldn't advertise in CQ anymore, as they aren't bounties.


contracts are nice. I like them ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=797668#post797668 ). However, bounties are a nice democratic (lol) way to express that somebody should lose a few ships ;)

the first does not exclude the second.

However: killing someone in an empty clone is meaningless in eve. Thats why the contract extension could benefit from the fixed bounty system.

edit:
see it this way:
- kill contracts work with everyone
- bounties only with those with a low sec status (you know... no risk no fun)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value