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hi sec not the same as it used to be

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Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#21 - 2014-04-02 12:25:22 UTC
Shadowlightt wrote:
Guys please no flaming i just wonder if any of u think high sec has improved or declined



I would have to say declined... but it has been doing that since I started the game back in 2003.... its called population explosion.

When the game started high sec was not even 1/10 as safe as it is now.
Solecist Project
#22 - 2014-04-02 12:31:44 UTC
Doppleganger wrote:
Shadowlightt wrote:
Guys please no flaming i just wonder if any of u think high sec has improved or declined



I would have to say declined... but it has been doing that since I started the game back in 2003.... its called population explosion.

When the game started high sec was not even 1/10 as safe as it is now.

I agree!

The more the population explodes, the safer highsec had to be.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#23 - 2014-04-02 12:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: DJentropy Ovaert
Shederov Blood wrote:

Not nearly enough. They still need to make the following changes.

* Pods can no longer warp for the duration of criminal timers.
* CONCORD kills anyone in highsec with lower than -5 security status, not just those with a criminal timer.
* Gate and station sentry guns shoot at suspects.
* Suspects can no longer legally return fire when attacked by a non-suspect.
* Wardec fees increased to 500mil minimum.
* Freighters gain a low slot and 3 rig slots with no other stats changed.
* Level 5 missions moved back to highsec.


Not far enough. After that the following changes needs to be made:

* Every system in the game will have a helpful Orc or High-Elf who will give you a quest in return for gold coins. Gold coins may be used to dress your avatar in the height of space fashion, or to summon magical space mounts (see below)

* All of high sec will be made into 1.0 space, and any player that dare fire on another player will be perma-banned

* Spaceships will be done away with and replaced with a single button to summon a magical space mount to take you to the next quest giving Elf.

* Combat between two or more players may only take place if all parties sign a waiver, click yes to accept, and do so out of the sight of any other player, as to not encourage violence.

* Null-sec and Wormhole space will be done away with and made into 1.0 space. After all, everyone knows that this is a game about sitting AFK somewhere for 23 hours a day mining rocks in order to upgrade their magical space mount. All mission NPC's will be replaced with enemy rocks that must be mined in order to claim victory! Each rock will require 3-5 hours of "combat" in order to defeat. Summon your friends by using your space mounts magical wand and get them in on the fun! (Note: space friends will be replaced by NPC characters)

* Every race will receive 47 magical space mining mounts to choose from, each with 1% more yield then the last. All skills that can be used to shoot at another player will be removed.\

* NEW Feature! Offline mode! No longer will a pesky internet connection be required, and you will never have to interact with your fellow players. All players will be simulated by either rocks or magical space mounts.

Only then will the game be the proper theme park wonderland it could be, and then will hopefully die in a fire.
Salvos Rhoska
#24 - 2014-04-02 12:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I would agree that high-sec is "too" safe. I havent thought enough on the matter to suggest solutions, but I do feel most of the problems are in impairing player aggression through NPC means, thereby limiting emergent player behavior and content artificially.

I think a good principle would be that NPC behavior should be dependant on player actions, not the other way around. Most of äy cursory ideas involve making NPC entities more dynamic to player action,rather than being a static and largely unresponsive stonewall.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#25 - 2014-04-02 12:40:25 UTC
Shadowlightt wrote:
Guys please no flaming i just wonder if any of u think high sec has improved or declined


Well nothing HAS really changed apart from some rules and mechanisms introduced to stop new pilots and old pilots who are terminally stupid from breaking the law and getting themselves killed by accident.

The New Order isnt new

Standards and Practices were doing that to bad CEOs many many years before

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-04-02 12:47:00 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
These are the changes I remember without a bit of googleing:

* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.
* You can no longer warp when you are waiting for CONCORD to come remove your ship. Back in the days, you could fit and arty tempest and warp from bookmark to bookmark 2-3 times with CONCORD chasing you. All while popping 2-3 mackinaws while running.
* You get jammed by CONCORD.
* You lose control of your drones as soon as CONCORD arrives.
* You get neuted to 0 cap the second they hit instead of during 5-6 seconds.
* Mining ships got a ridicolous HP buff.
* All ships got a 25 % HP buff.
* T2 haulers cant be cargo scanned.
* Jump freigters were introduced and removed all risk from hauling big stuff out of high sec.

Not nearly enough. They still need to make the following changes.

* Pods can no longer warp for the duration of criminal timers.
* CONCORD kills anyone in highsec with lower than -5 security status, not just those with a criminal timer.
* Gate and station sentry guns shoot at suspects.
* Suspects can no longer legally return fire when attacked by a non-suspect.
* Wardec fees increased to 500mil minimum.
* Freighters gain a low slot and 3 rig slots with no other stats changed.
* Level 5 missions moved back to highsec.


You're joking, right?

- You can be a criminal and never gank a ship. Still - you need to visit high sec on occasions.
- PVPers would be podded notoriously, and the game would loose subs. At best it would make people more careful and decrease the participation in low sec pvp.
- You can attack criminals without penalty now, so it's a viable low sec tactic to gate camp criminals, since they need to counter you + gate/station guns if they want to destroy the camp.



"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-04-02 12:50:09 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Grunanca wrote:

These are the changes I remember without a bit of googleing:

* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.
* You can no longer warp when you are waiting for CONCORD to come remove your ship. Back in the days, you could fit and arty tempest and warp from bookmark to bookmark 2-3 times with CONCORD chasing you. All while popping 2-3 mackinaws while running.
* You get jammed by CONCORD.
* You lose control of your drones as soon as CONCORD arrives.
* You get neuted to 0 cap the second they hit instead of during 5-6 seconds.
* Mining ships got a ridicolous HP buff.
* All ships got a 25 % HP buff.
* T2 haulers cant be cargo scanned.
* Jump freigters were introduced and removed all risk from hauling big stuff out of high sec.

So yeah, high sec changed a whole lot... Gankers got smarter, victims didnt... End of story!

Let's compare:
* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You get jammed by CONCORD.
* You lose control of your drones as soon as CONCORD arrives.
* You get neuted to 0 cap the second they hit instead of during 5-6 seconds.
Before: people could play with fitting and fleeting ideas
Now: fit for maximum DPS, no fleet compositions (i don't speak about OGB and cloaked warp-in point). Warp, kill, die

* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.
Before: you could use different ships
Now: you use cheapest possible option: Catalyst, Vexor, etc...

* You can no longer warp when you are waiting for CONCORD to come remove your ship. Back in the days, you could fit and arty tempest and warp from bookmark to bookmark 2-3 times with CONCORD chasing you. All while popping 2-3 mackinaws while running.
Before: smarter people could discover this tactics and play it
Now: all ganks are equal - warp, kill, die

* T2 haulers cant be cargo scanned.
Before: you had to calculate risks: cargo amount vs your expenses
Now: you just drop coin....

All in all i don't see how gankers could get smarter with all these changes. Actually ganking became easier: you have no need to do homework about fitting and fleeting strategies. All 1 week old chars trained for Catalyst and max DPS have the same chances to be successful.

I see your point and partially agree with it. It is correct that CCP removed all idea that would make the smarter people better. These days its more a numbers game, but again... The people that used to have the brilliant ideas are from what I have seen still the ones that makes the best setups etc. Also, some of the low end gankes have prob been pushed away by the changes. You still have to take into consideration damagetypes, tracking, the size and speed of who you shoot if you are to maximixe your profit and lower the number of people needed. This is not something all takes into consideration.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2014-04-02 12:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Grunanca wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Yeah! Too many gankers and griefers!
Seriously, every where I go there's either a flashy red or a flashy yellow in the system!

Why doesn't CCP do anything against this madness???? How do they expect us to enjoy the game when there are so many others deliberately trying to ruin it for us!!!??? WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO MEAN!!! LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!


You clearly werent there back when you could tank concord and kill on...

Way too much have been done!

These are the changes I remember without a bit of googleing:

* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.
* You can no longer warp when you are waiting for CONCORD to come remove your ship. Back in the days, you could fit and arty tempest and warp from bookmark to bookmark 2-3 times with CONCORD chasing you. All while popping 2-3 mackinaws while running.
* You get jammed by CONCORD.
* You lose control of your drones as soon as CONCORD arrives.
* You get neuted to 0 cap the second they hit instead of during 5-6 seconds.
* Mining ships got a ridicolous HP buff.
* All ships got a 25 % HP buff.
* T2 haulers cant be cargo scanned.
* Jump freigters were introduced and removed all risk from hauling big stuff out of high sec.

So yeah, high sec changed a whole lot... Gankers got smarter, victims didnt... End of story!
The sarcasm, you missed it. Solecist is a returning player with intimate knowledge of highsec aggression mechanics and Concord. Other than that, good post.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#29 - 2014-04-02 12:51:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Doppleganger wrote:
Shadowlightt wrote:
Guys please no flaming i just wonder if any of u think high sec has improved or declined



I would have to say declined... but it has been doing that since I started the game back in 2003.... its called population explosion.

When the game started high sec was not even 1/10 as safe as it is now.

I agree!

The more the population explodes, the safer highsec had to be.


Yes it had to be made safer to drive up subscription numbers. When it started it was more of a niche game but as more and more people joined that wanted the game to be more like a single player game they had beef up concord and sentry guns and all sorts of things to be able to keep those people in the game paying instead of leaving it a smaller niche game.

If they had not done that the game probably would not have lasted for 11 years so its always just adapt and change or leave. I think thats what happened to the game I was playing before this one... Jumpgate.... it was never safe anywhere and that was a blast but it never gained the numbers to stay alive and died a slow death. R.I.P. original Jumpgate and original EVE Online.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-04-02 12:52:03 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
These are the changes I remember without a bit of googleing:

* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.
* You can no longer warp when you are waiting for CONCORD to come remove your ship. Back in the days, you could fit and arty tempest and warp from bookmark to bookmark 2-3 times with CONCORD chasing you. All while popping 2-3 mackinaws while running.
* You get jammed by CONCORD.
* You lose control of your drones as soon as CONCORD arrives.
* You get neuted to 0 cap the second they hit instead of during 5-6 seconds.
* Mining ships got a ridicolous HP buff.
* All ships got a 25 % HP buff.
* T2 haulers cant be cargo scanned.
* Jump freigters were introduced and removed all risk from hauling big stuff out of high sec.

Not nearly enough. They still need to make the following changes.

* Pods can no longer warp for the duration of criminal timers.
* CONCORD kills anyone in highsec with lower than -5 security status, not just those with a criminal timer.
* Gate and station sentry guns shoot at suspects.
* Suspects can no longer legally return fire when attacked by a non-suspect.
* Wardec fees increased to 500mil minimum.
* Freighters gain a low slot and 3 rig slots with no other stats changed.
* Level 5 missions moved back to highsec.


To the OP: The above quoted post is the reason why 'flaming' happens.

No matter how safe you make high sec (what with it's now untankable NPC police, SAFETIES and dozens of other little things that neuter the non-consensual part of a non-consensual pvp game) it will never be safe enough for these types till CCP makes implements a total "guns do not work in high sec and bumping someone results in CONCORD intervention" mechanic.

And no matter how much 'top end' end content you put into high sec, these people will want more, like the reinstatement of a BUG that allowed lvl 5 missions in high sec. High Sec lvl 4 missions, epic arc missions and incursions all NPC battleships....in high security space.... when they shouldn't.

There is a reason why high sec exploration sites don't have battleships while low and null exploration content does, that was CCPs original risk vs reward structure: starter pve content in high security space, progressively harder and more rewarding content as you moved further into danger. Mainly because it's dumb to see literally hundreds of thousands of pirate BATTLESHIPS flying around in hisec snatching up space HOs aka Damsels by the thousands. It's like watching Somalian Carrier Battlegroups attack New York and Los Angeles every day while the U.S. Navy does nothing lol.

(Wait, Somalian pirates don't have capital ships??? Exactly!)

But somewhere along the line, CCP figured they had to give high end content to people in the safest space resulting in the relative devaluing of pve content just about everywhere else. Problem with that is (as you can see from the quoted post) is that it's just never ever enough for some people.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#31 - 2014-04-02 13:00:00 UTC
I was under the impression there would be bacon?


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2014-04-02 13:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Doc Fury wrote:
I was under the impression there would be bacon?
Paging Tollen Gallen.

Back Bacon (UK style) or Streaky Bacon (US style)?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-04-02 13:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Naburi NasNaburi
Solecist Project wrote:
Yeah! Too many gankers and griefers!
Seriously, every where I go there's either a flashy red or a flashy yellow in the system!

Why doesn't CCP do anything against this madness???? How do they expect us to enjoy the game when there are so many others deliberately trying to ruin it for us!!!??? WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO MEAN!!! LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!



10/10 Made my day *snickers*

Yes hisec has improved.
More isk to be made, more idiots to be found.. woops did I say that out loud?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#34 - 2014-04-02 13:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Shederov Blood wrote:

Not nearly enough. They still need to make the following changes.

* Pods can no longer warp for the duration of criminal timers.
* CONCORD kills anyone in highsec with lower than -5 security status, not just those with a criminal timer.
* Gate and station sentry guns shoot at suspects.
* Suspects can no longer legally return fire when attacked by a non-suspect.
* Wardec fees increased to 500mil minimum.
* Freighters gain a low slot and 3 rig slots with no other stats changed.
* Level 5 missions moved back to highsec.


Not far enough. After that the following changes needs to be made:

* Every system in the game will have a helpful Orc or High-Elf who will give you a quest in return for gold coins. Gold coins may be used to dress your avatar in the height of space fashion, or to summon magical space mounts (see below)

* All of high sec will be made into 1.0 space, and any player that dare fire on another player will be perma-banned

* Spaceships will be done away with and replaced with a single button to summon a magical space mount to take you to the next quest giving Elf.

* Combat between two or more players may only take place if all parties sign a waiver, click yes to accept, and do so out of the sight of any other player, as to not encourage violence.

* Null-sec and Wormhole space will be done away with and made into 1.0 space. After all, everyone knows that this is a game about sitting AFK somewhere for 23 hours a day mining rocks in order to upgrade their magical space mount. All mission NPC's will be replaced with enemy rocks that must be mined in order to claim victory! Each rock will require 3-5 hours of "combat" in order to defeat. Summon your friends by using your space mounts magical wand and get them in on the fun! (Note: space friends will be replaced by NPC characters)

* Every race will receive 47 magical space mining mounts to choose from, each with 1% more yield then the last. All skills that can be used to shoot at another player will be removed.\

* NEW Feature! Offline mode! No longer will a pesky internet connection be required, and you will never have to interact with your fellow players. All players will be simulated by either rocks or magical space mounts.

Only then will the game be the proper theme park wonderland it could be, and then will hopefully die in a fire.


Nothing hopeful about it, it WOULD die in a fire, and it wouldn't be because of non-high sec/pro-pvp players leaving, it would be because the 'carebears' left.

Most MMOs coddle the hell out of players and protect their 'feelings'. Every time one of these new MMOs pop up and has any kind of space theme, some of the EVE super-bear community pipes up and claims "omg , XXX game is going to kill EVE because it won't allow sociopaths to sociopath" . Star Trek Online is a great example. It has all the things the super-bears crave (no non-consensual pvp what so ever, a strong anti-griefing policy from the DEVs and PVE (both space and ground based) that doesn't actually suck). You'd think they'd have loved it and you'd never see them again in EVE.

But that's not the case. Many left loudly but returned quietly lol, full of excuses of the game being unpolished or 'not being a sandbox' or 'it's crap because they turned it into free to play'. The reality is, they don't understand themselves enough to know that along with the things they like about EVE, the things they DON'T like ('sociopaths, griefers, gankers ect) add value to their experience as well, by making the things they build and gain have meaning.

Fortunately, most of us who prefer PVE over PVP (the silent majority-bears lol) understand what kind of game we are playing and know ourselves well enough to know WHY we enjoy it. We understand that in our own way, we are also PVPing, but not allowing ourselves to get ganked while we Silence yet another damn Informant.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#35 - 2014-04-02 13:48:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
I was under the impression there would be bacon?
Paging Tollen Gallen.

Back Bacon (UK style) or Streaky Bacon (US style)?


As long as it's not funky, I am none too picky.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-04-02 13:59:43 UTC
With so many improvements to the sandbox over recent years, its hard to pick my most favorite.

Truly, I can't wait to see what further improvements will be made under the loving guardianship of each years gaggle of nullsec bloc CSM members. That has to be my favorite part, really...watching all of these improvements get made over the years under the watchful eyes of such an auspicious player organization that has such deep insights and personal attachments in hisec mechanics.

p.s.
When we do go full-WoW, can I finally get a Hello Kitty rifter?




Would you like to know more?
One Eyed Runner
GetYaTitsOut
#37 - 2014-04-02 14:11:37 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Shederov Blood wrote:


* Pods can no longer warp for the duration of criminal timers.
* CONCORD kills anyone in highsec with lower than -5 security status, not just those with a criminal timer.
* Gate and station sentry guns shoot at suspects.
* Suspects can no longer legally return fire when attacked by a non-suspect.
* Wardec fees increased to 500mil minimum.
* Freighters gain a low slot and 3 rig slots with no other stats changed.
* Level 5 missions moved back to highsec.


* Caldari police and all gate and station guns IMMEADIATELY attack all pilots with Gallente logos in the background
* Vice Versa
* Amarr pilots required to learn Pax Amarria by heart or join Blood Raiders and leave High Sec
* Warships banned from High Sec
* Any weapon or ECM sales either require official armament transporter permit or are banned from high Sec
* Four legs good
* Two legs Bad
* No ducks allowed
* Infinate Rice Pudding available at all Piggly Wigglies in the metro area



but but I like ducks!!!

I live in Jita so f*ck off
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#38 - 2014-04-02 14:17:15 UTC
WouldYouEver HaveSexWith aGoat wrote:
No one cares about flashy reds and yellows. I'm a flashy red and yellow. People care about 30 year olds having the mentality of 16 year olds and bothering other 30 year olds about it.


+1, I agreed. That said, it's kinda made me lol to see this coming from someone with such a name Big smile


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#39 - 2014-04-02 14:21:33 UTC
Grunanca wrote:

* Concord damage buffed so it cant be tanked anymore, even not with a whole fleet of remote reparing ships.
* You no longer get insurance payout for ships that die to CONCORD.


Have cheese with that wine. Miner tears are one thing but ganker tears are a class of their own...
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#40 - 2014-04-02 14:23:20 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Shadowlightt wrote:
Guys please no flaming i just wonder if any of u think high sec has improved or declined

You might have written an op to direct the initial direction of the tread, given how vague it is I'd say you're lucky it's not a thread about bacon already....actuallyShockedCool


Ohhh.... dude, I LOVE bacon. Check THIS out!

BACON EXPLOSION


Youre welcome.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project