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[Kronos] Mining Barges and Exhumers

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#61 - 2014-04-01 17:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Ore Yield, ignoring non-ship skills as they'll modify the stats in the same way):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1os33ZVJKyRfG3GY3taX0Se25dlTbNOoCLHprP7WoRKQ/edit?usp=sharing

Edit: now fixed with a proper multiplier for the procurer and skiff (it's +150% yield. not a 150% multiplier.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-04-01 17:43:27 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
move survey scanner, ship scanner and cargo scanner to highslots, change strip miners to turrets, add utility highs to skiff and procurer?

hulks and covetors can rely on orca scan ("fleet ships"), macks and rets are afk anyway

then rework mining completely and scrap it all because mining is horrible


don't like the idea of the scans in high slots, nerfs ganking but i love the idea of the the hulk relying on the orca scans, was going to say give Hulks a range boost to surveys, but his idea is better.

also it be nice to give reason to mine as a crop or a fleet, people are better of mining solo with Alt's, like larger the fleet the more boosts the fleet get? (only in system) or more lases mining one rock the faster.

And a better fleet loot log, so it say that they mined, looted form a wreck/can or dumped it in/from a orca
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#63 - 2014-04-01 18:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranamar
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ore Yield, ignoring non-ship skills as they'll modify the stats in the same way):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1os33ZVJKyRfG3GY3taX0Se25dlTbNOoCLHprP7WoRKQ/edit?usp=sharing


Fairly significant differences in yield



Your math is off: you should be multiplying Procurer and Skiff yields by 2.5, not 1.5; it's a 150% bonus as compared to a 25% bonus.

ETA: As before the change, assuming equal numbers of MLUs, the tanky and high-ore-hold barges get identical yields.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#64 - 2014-04-01 18:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Interesting changes. I'm not a fan of nerfing the Mack but again I'm one that enjoys the cargo hold because I don't like can mining. Anywho, nice to see the effort in this.

Survey scanner - please can we finally get an update to the range now? Either that or add a faction ORE survey scanner with good range. The utility slot idea above is good but I'm sure you are looking at trade offs here. Anyway, 24km is not enough to be useful.

Finally, can we get either a little more base CPU or increase the reduction for the amount of CPU drawback on mining rigs and / or mining upgrades? Mack and hulk fits are a bit crazy...I mean we are talking like 10 CPU would make a world of difference.

Thanks!

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Louhbo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-04-01 18:07:58 UTC
Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk.
Mindo Junde
Somnium Vita
#66 - 2014-04-01 18:09:20 UTC
How is this change going to mean more Covetors/Hulks and less Retrievers/Mackinaws?

There is nothing that will change the situation you created, other than annoy the Retrievers/Mackinaw pilots and please the skiff bait pilots.

You want more hulk pilots? Increase the ore bay, that's the only thing that'll get em appearing.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-04-01 18:09:32 UTC
Louhbo wrote:
Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk.


means you can fit back up drone + mining drones.
Commander A9
This Was The Way
#68 - 2014-04-01 18:13:23 UTC
Maybe this is the frustration of someone watching CCP act nerf-happy since Inferno came out, but...

I haven't used my Hulk since the first barge change...and that doesn't impress me at all. I miss the days when Hulk was true king, of all aspects. I miss the exhumer specialities of pre-Inferno...when a skiff could safely get Mercoxit, or a Mackinaw out-classed all in an inc belt, and the Hulk reigned supreme

Hell, I miss the orange mining beams and audio sequences, which made me feel like I was actually blasting apart rocks...but those days are long-gone...

Were I to have any weight? I'd bring the specialities back...and I really don't like how all the barge/exhumer yields are pretty much the same. What's the benefit of having a Hulk now if you have no fleet to fly in?

And who thought it was a brilliant idea to give the Mackinaw a bigger hold than the Hulk? What was done was essentially parking a VW bug next to an 18-wheeler, and giving the Bug the cargo capacity of an aircraft carrier and calling it legit...

...and I really wish cargo rigs with apply to ore holds...

Yes, I know these concerns are a long-time coming, but if "no votes nerf boats," why is it I keep voting, and all my treasured boats keep getting nerfed and/or messed with?

Long ago, I maximized my Hulk skills for a reason...

Recommendations:

-enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters)

-add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot)

-STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!

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Dave Stark
#69 - 2014-04-01 18:13:38 UTC
Louhbo wrote:
Increasing the drone bay of the procurer without increasing the bandwidth is no good. Bump up the bandwidth so that it can field a full flight of medium drones to make it comparable to the mack and hulk.


why should a mining barge be on par with exhumers?
Dave Stark
#70 - 2014-04-01 18:16:03 UTC
Mindo Junde wrote:
How is this change going to mean more Covetors/Hulks and less Retrievers/Mackinaws?

There is nothing that will change the situation you created, other than annoy the Retrievers/Mackinaw pilots and please the skiff bait pilots.

You want more hulk pilots? Increase the ore bay, that's the only thing that'll get em appearing.


or enough tank to take more than one catalyst to destroy it without having to nerf your yield to the point where anything with more tank would outmine it.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#71 - 2014-04-01 18:23:50 UTC
My Skiff says thankie =3
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#72 - 2014-04-01 18:29:14 UTC
On the bright side, this is a nerf to bot aspirancy. Retrievers and Mackinaws are popular because they have good yield and large holds, which allows you to maximize your afk time.

On the downside, this will make multiboxing a mining fleet more profitable, as you can now set up a fleet of high yield skiffs/procurers, who are extremely difficult to gank. And with an orca or freighter, the smaller cargo bay is irrelevant.

The issue with mining hold is that its largely binary. Either it matters a lot(solo miner) or its completely irrelevant(in a fleet).
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#73 - 2014-04-01 18:30:47 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Changing the mining bonus to a duration based one is of some help to the issue I will bring up. But the Skiff, and to some extent the Mack still have one big disadvantage compared to the Hulk: fewer strips. To see the issue consider:

Most miners target a roid and let the miner run its full cycle. If the roid is small some fraction of the cycle will be wasted. With the Hulk if one of your strips is on a small roid you will lose some small fraction of your yield, up to a maximum of one third.

But with the Skiff you could lose up to a complete cycle by targeting a small roid. As the single strip takes so much ore in one cycle there is a greater chance the roid will pop and you lose part of the cycle.

The result is under most practical uses, the Skiff mines much less than your table of numbers would indicate.

How to fix? I see three methods.
1) Redo the models so all mining ships have the same number of strips.
2) Make the strips on the Skiff cycle faster (but still produce the same cubic meters per minute). Of course the player can do this manually, but it just makes mining even more of a click fest.
3) Make it so if you mine a small roid the miner starts its cycle part way through so its timed to end just as the roid runs out of minerals. (This would fail if there are two strips on the same roid. But that is a rare case anyway).

#2 is the only one that can be done by just changing stats. The others require more coding.


This can be solved by scanning asteroids in order to maximize your return.
Abulurd Boniface
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-04-01 18:37:22 UTC
I am not amused.

While acknowledging that mining is not the most fun of activities, now you want to make it take longer?
Apackof12Ninjas
SiN Corp
Brothers of Tangra
#75 - 2014-04-01 18:42:29 UTC
Awaiting confirmation that this is not a April Fools joke.

I am not amused
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#76 - 2014-04-01 18:44:16 UTC
"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"

Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot
Dave Stark
#77 - 2014-04-01 18:45:43 UTC
twit brent wrote:
"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"

Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot


ironically he's probably having the most fun; you know, not having to be at his pc and all. start your boosts then go and do your shopping, or go for a nice bike ride, etc.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-04-01 18:50:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
twit brent wrote:
"mind numbing boredom for the PVP pilot"

Which is nothing compared to the rorq pilot


ironically he's probably having the most fun; you know, not having to be at his pc and all. start your boosts then go and do your shopping, or go for a nice bike ride, etc.


My favorite way to have fun playing EVE is not playing EVE.

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Tharin Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#79 - 2014-04-01 18:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tharin Malkyre
Skiffs will blot out the suns.

Edit: And honestly, my favorite part of this change is the targeting ranges and max locked targets. Well done Fozzie!
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#80 - 2014-04-01 19:01:28 UTC
I know the Orca has not been balanced yet but would adding a single line of compression into it make the changes to the hulk more worth while as right now the amount of hulks needed to make using a single hauler still is more then the normal mining group.