Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Dave Stark is right, the Skiff is a battle barge with 2 tanking bonuses and a full flight of bonuses medium drones.

yes, but retaining a paper thin tank means it's practically useless since it ends up as a wreck rather than actually mining asteroids. something a fleet won't change.

on the other hand, a fleet will alleviate the issues generated by a small cargo capacity.

I don't like this. You don't make the hulk better by nerfing everything else; that's the same stupid logic liberals use when they tax the rich ungodly amounts instead of helping the poor get better jobs - "the poor are too poor, let's penalize the rich to make things better". Instead, you are nerfing miners in general. Improve the hulk! No one was complaining that it takes too long to lock Retrievers and Mackinaws. -1

First of all, I didn't read every post up until now, if I repost something already mentioned apologies for that.

I imagine CCP wants miners to bring the ore in to stimulate the economy, but its so tedious and boring right now due to a number of issues.
My intent is to give constructive feedback to CCP on how to improve some issues and make this part of the game more enjoyable.
These are not changes that will result in balance issues, should not affect anything other than reduced "frustration factors" regarding mining and add some fun factor with some incentive to fleet up :)

Let the spice flow!

1) Mining lasers
- Have the ore mined tick faster in, instead like it is now at the end of the cycle, maybe when reaching x m3 or per y sec.
Keep the cap needed to activate the lasers the same as it is now.
Example: When 50 m3 worth of ore is mined from the current cycle transfer it to cargo from the asteroid, or each 10 secs have passed the ore is put in cargo.
This could be adjusted per mining laser if it is deemed a balance thing, but I can for the life of me not think of why...
To lose mining time because you 're mining "an empty/non-existing asteroid" is to me something that if not a game bug, is a really bad game design mechanic...
- If the above is not implemented at least have the mining lasers deactivate upon reaching what is left of an asteroid, in the very least when it is surveyed! With the current technology in-game some onboard coordination between modules have to exist/be possible...
- Re-Start Mining Lasers! Mining Laser deactivated due to a popped asteroid, starts on another asteroid that is locked on.
I know there are pros and cons on this one and opinions on both, I still feel it would remove more frustration than anything else. You still need to keep actively lock on asteroids so you cannot go afk and come back with a full hull.
I'll make a similar suggestion for survey scanners.

2) Survey scanners - Interface update please!
I liked the changes posted early in the thread about survey scanners
Its so damn messy right now, especially in a fleet.
- Continuously scanning! Why is it not possible to have them on at all times?
- Have role bonuses/increase by x% per skill(exhumer and barge) for the Hulk and Covetor survey range.
- An indication above the surveyed asteroids on how much m3 of ore is left in them.
- On the scanner overview what is targeted, like the overview has.
- Indication of what other fleet members are mining/have targeted.
- Some additional bonus for bringing an survey scanner for the miner, to promote a mining setup. 1% per survey skill to mining yield/cycle?

3) Mining in a Fleet!
Something should be improved regarding fleet coordination when mining, here are some suggestions on how fleeting with total strangers could be made a viable option even.
- Have a tab on each pilots mined amount of ore when loaded into an hauler. If it is refined the minerals should replace the ore amount used obviously.
Keeping track of who mines what is next to impossible right now in larger fleets without writing down each amount when hauling, this feels extremely unnecessary and with some game design mechanics this is eliminated and massively improved upon.
- Implement system for Fleet/PUG hauling, where to setup this in Fleet or somewhere else can be up to devs but the idea is quite simple: The hauler cannot dump the ore/mineral into their own hangar, but it is placed in each pilots item hangar. With an pre-agreed upon(definable) cut for the hauler, everyone wins!
- Improved hauling mechanism - Unload cargo to Station
It seems awfully unnecessary to dock to be able to unload cargo...Why not have a new feature for haulers where they can dump their cargo from space, have this option reserved until cargo reaches lets say 5000 m3 (figure can be changed)
- Rorq+Orca's survey scans propagates to the fleet!
- Possible to designate focus targets on asteroids from Rorq+Orca, give bonus to these targets for some incentive for these pilots to stay awake.
Implement focus targets skills: +1 focus target per skill, focus target increase yield/cycle by x% skill, range to set focus targets on asteroids per skill.
- It would be nice for an interface update to the survey scanner when focus targeting, imagine like scanning for anomalies but in the asteroid belt with fleet members showing up along with the asteroids! Rorq+Orca Pilots mark where each pilot should be and what roids to mine by designating targets.

4) Drones and mining
- Mining/combat drones returns to drone bay upon warp initiation. Please, this is so annoying when you forget to do this manually..
- After launching combat drones have them engage a target, its annoying if I am fully locked up on asteroids having to unlock one then lock on a rat firing on me, then engage target instead of them doing this automatically upon being launched in aggressive stance.
- Hauler drones! Mine more ore/h or make fewer trips to stash it. You can now chose!
Hulk and Covetor should not be able to use them. Defeats the purpose of these ships?
Launch them and select what in system station to haul to, this is then saved for quick haul command in drone menu - “Haul to (select station), haul to last station used”
IMO the drones should not be hauling automatically to the station upon returning. They make one trip and stash as much from the ore bay as they can and warp back to where you where and dock in drone bay if you are in drone range. Else they become inactive as if you left other drones.
Cannot use more/other drones (unless you have skill to/drone bandwidth) while they haul, they are effectively in use as other drones.

Hulk/Covetor vs other mining ships
The problem lies with inconvenience.
Hulk/Covetor are just that. Add low tank, along with can flipping and the need to haul with another ship/pilot...

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

Here's a spin, and this deserves consideration even if not approval.

Give drones launched from mining barges & exhumers crossover ability.

By that, I mean they can both fight and mine with the same drone.

(These little buggers are mining, but noone said they necessarily had to do so exclusively, we just assumed this detail)

The new ORE class of hybrid drones, T2 requirements in exchange for T1 equivalent fighting AND mining ability.
(T2 mining and T2 fighting would remain exclusive to their respective existing categories.)

As this would be specific to barges and exhumers only, I figure it belongs here in the thread for them.

The way this is worded it sounds like the intent of this change is to allow a person to choose a Skiff/Procurer at a loss in yield for the ability to "defend a mining fleet". Is this the intent or is it more of a personal decision to be able to defend yourself as an individual in a mining fleet?


"large scale group mining" There are a few issues that detract from a Hulk as a large scale group mining ship. Range is generally not one of them.

Here are the issues with Hulks(and Covetors) in fleets.
1. The tank is so light that they cannot be defended practically.
2. They have the tightest fitting constraints further exacerbating the first issue.(apparently being "slightly" addressed)
3. They (Hulks) are the most expensive of the exhumers.
4. Because of issues 1, 2 and 3 they are the most desirable targets for a hostile fleet because of the likelihood of a successful kill and likelihood of a positive isk effeciency in a fleet trade (if mining fleet is defended).
5. Require most tedium(by far) to operate reducing the ability to multi-box Hulks.
6. Are by far the slowest ship and easiest to catch. (even after the changes they remain the slowest)

Hulks and Covetors have everything working against them. The only time they out shine the other barges is when they're adequately defended with a dedicated hauler. Adequate defense requires a dedicated PvP pilot and because of Issues 1 and 2 also a dedicated logistics pilot as well which renders Hulks generally impractical for fleet mining. And requiring a dedicated hauler renders them impractical for solo mining. Even ninja mining is covered by the venture. There really is no niche for the Hulk as of now.

Instead of balancing around survivability why not balance around defensive capability?
We could bring the base survivability of all of the exhumers/barges to be much closer in line with each other.
The Skiff/Procurer have the defensive capabilities with drones.
The Mackinaw/Retriever could have a bonus to repair drone effectiveness.
The Hulk can once again do it's name justice, being heavily tanked, slow, high yield, no drone bay.

This would create a dynamic and diverse mining fleet.
Hulks would now be viable and desirable for fleet mining but would lose the last shred of solo viablility (drones).
Mackinaws would now have a role to play in a mining fleet. There would be no impact on their solo viability.
Skiffs should lose some solo survivability only to regain it in conjunction with a diverse mining fleet.
Mining fleets would now have greater self sustainability that would scale with size, while the size of the fleet will be soft capped by the size of the resource field. (how many miners can mine 1 high sec belt at a time?)

Would this be a idea worth considering?

if they're going to do anything, i'd rather they made harvester drones not suck balls.

Agreed.

More drone options like my suggestion could also help improve play.

Sure but how many miners mine outside the reach of their station? If it is within the same system, you need like 1m to drop off the goods. But thinking about it, why isn't procurer/skiff penalized in ore hold? If you have thick defenses == less space for goods.