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[Kronos] Mining Barges and Exhumers

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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#481 - 2014-04-16 23:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
All good changes, especially the reduction in the volumn of mining crystals. Won't say I told you so, but I told you so, and now we'll be able to carry a reasonable selection of crystals in the hulks cargo hold.

Two requests please:

1.) A "parking brake." I have a nasty habit of accidently double clicking in space and causing my barge to drift off in a random direction. Because the ships moves and turns so slow it often escapes my notice until I lose range. A "parking brake" feature would stop that. For clarity, it won't stop you moving if bumped.

2.) A tool tip when hovering the pointer over the strip miner icon telling you exactly how many units have been mined, to be used in conjunction with a survey scanner. I like to try to shut off my strips when they would be otherwise wasting a portion of a cycle, but there is still alot of guess work involved. The increased efficency would also promote non-afk game play?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#482 - 2014-04-17 01:51:42 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:


1.) A "parking brake." I have a nasty habit of accidently double clicking in space and causing my barge to drift off in a random direction. Because the ships moves and turns so slow it often escapes my notice until I lose range. A "parking brake" feature would stop that. For clarity, it won't stop you moving if bumped.


You can click on your ship velocity bar/meter at the bottom of the HUD and set your max speed to 1m/s or something.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#483 - 2014-04-17 09:50:12 UTC
Atum wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.

Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.)

Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed.



'mine solo'
'alt'

We have different definitions of solo.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Svarii
Acclimatization
#484 - 2014-04-17 21:35:15 UTC
Idk if it has been mentioned yet or not. But...

Please tell me you are finally going to be rebalancing the Harvest implant set as well so it's not completely useless, stupidly expensive, and nearly impossible to get ahold of.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#485 - 2014-04-18 04:04:45 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
2.) A tool tip when hovering the pointer over the strip miner icon telling you exactly how many units have been mined, to be used in conjunction with a survey scanner. I like to try to shut off my strips when they would be otherwise wasting a portion of a cycle, but there is still alot of guess work involved. The increased efficency would also promote non-afk game play?

I (mostly) like this idea, but instead of a bubble telling you how much has been pulled out, using the SS results in bubbles appearing on the rocks with quantity remaining, rather than presenting the info in a table.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#486 - 2014-04-18 04:06:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Atum wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.

Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.)

Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed.



'mine solo'
'alt'

We have different definitions of solo.

Fair 'nuff... to me 'solo' is however many accounts a single human can reasonably control without resorting to click replication software (eg. ISBoxer) or other non-biological means.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#487 - 2014-04-18 08:48:59 UTC
Atum wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Atum wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.

Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.)

Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed.



'mine solo'
'alt'

We have different definitions of solo.

Fair 'nuff... to me 'solo' is however many accounts a single human can reasonably control without resorting to click replication software (eg. ISBoxer) or other non-biological means.



At that point, you can quite happily run a small fleet with hulks and an orca. They're not exactly high maintenance. and warpout is easy enough with a fleet

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#488 - 2014-04-18 09:34:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're giving the Hulk and Covetor a bit more yield and agility, and the Hulk is getting slightly more fittings.

Good decision. Much needed. But I don't care about the rest, tbh.

And you won't be able to satisfy the "I can't defend myself, stop the gankers or give me weapons to shoot back"-part of the playerbase with drones.

Remove standings and insurance.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#489 - 2014-04-18 12:44:02 UTC
While I love the drone damage bonus for the Skiff (I may be running missions with it then), I'm not sure if it is a bit too powerful for the T1 Procurer. Maybe change the procurer bonus to a drone speed and tracking bonus, which would benefit mining drones, too.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#490 - 2014-04-18 12:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum
Steve Ronuken wrote:
At that point, you can quite happily run a small fleet with hulks and an orca. They're not exactly high maintenance. and warpout is easy enough with a fleet

Fleet warp for evasion, sure. But having to manage all the hulks with their two-cycle ore bays does require a fair bit of attention. I'm happy enough with just one hulk and one boost/haul, after that it starts cutting into social hour on corp chat/TS. The most I saw anyone consistently run was back in my IRON days... guy with one booster and three hulks, who rarely said much that was intelligible (though in his defense, English was not his first language, and he was usually baked Cool)
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#491 - 2014-04-18 14:35:44 UTC
Fools, you got the procurer nerfed by taking away a low slot in exchange for the mid. The procurer had plenty of tank even with 3 mids for a 10mil isk mining barge.

I can see why CCP did it, as It was looking a bit too powerful for the price. At least there is a reason to use the Skiff now.

Rest of the changes look good though.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#492 - 2014-04-18 14:37:15 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
While I love the drone damage bonus for the Skiff (I may be running missions with it then), I'm not sure if it is a bit too powerful for the T1 Procurer. Maybe change the procurer bonus to a drone speed and tracking bonus, which would benefit mining drones, too.

Why is everyone ganging up to nerf the procurer in this thread. It is fine how it is right now, it has already had its yield reduced.
CowRocket Null
Aerarium.Stabulum
SYNDE Associates
#493 - 2014-04-18 23:43:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


.......... -220 scan res for the Procurer and Skiff. This is being done partly to ensure that the Hulk has a small relative lock time advantage and partly to avoid making the Procurer and Skiff too powerful in combat. The lock time of all barges and exhumers is still obscenely good.


NOOOOOO!!!!!! How will I lock frigs that venture into lowsec and pod them too???? Frig buff for lowsec..=/

j/k... or am I?
Demous Darkstar
Darkstar Caldari Research inc
#494 - 2014-04-19 13:47:20 UTC
This is shaping up to be a solid change in the right direction for mining ships. I admit its been ages since I last used my Hulk, but with the proposed changes I may try it out again.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#495 - 2014-04-19 19:11:37 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Atum wrote:
Guth'Alak wrote:
give exhumers a slot for cov ops cloak so miners feel more encouraged to leave high sec and use of those empty asteroid fields in low and null sec.

CovOps cloak? No. *Maybe* just a general utility high, but cloaky warping barges? Please Roll

No... wait... this is actually the right kind of crazy.

Give them a special cloak which allows use of mining lasers, (each needing a special targeting prompt to engage passively while cloaked).
For the targeting, just click on the laser with nothing locked, it already does this by default.

The hostile, warping to the belt, looks for the tell tale of lasers hitting rocks, and heads over to get closer.

This is the good part, follow carefully here.

The miner, KNOWING they are cloaked and cannot be targeted, has no reason to run.
The hunter, seeing the laser, gets closer to the miner.

The hunter needs to decloak, in order to do ANYTHING offensive.
By decloaking, they immediately alert the miner, who kills the mining laser, effectively removing the only clue to their whereabouts.

Now, IF the hostile is decloaked and has smart bombs, they can set them off, and hope their target is in range.
The mining ship should be trying to back away, out of such range.
(Time to call friends, if applicable)

It kind of reminds me of the old grid and peg game, battleship, where players try to guess each others location for combat.

I would love to test out encounters using these details.


I like the idea of a utility high that could fit a cloak. I think a covert ops cloak would be a bit much. I think it would break the balance cloaking has if you allow modules to activate while cloaked.

But a utility high that could also be used to fit a cloak? I like that idea.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#496 - 2014-04-19 21:30:11 UTC
Quick suggestion, would it hurt balance too much if the hulk and the covetor had 12000 m3 ore bays bringing them in line with the procurer. They'd still be varied enough in performance to not overlap but the hulk and covetor might see some more use.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#497 - 2014-04-19 21:40:49 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Quick suggestion, would it hurt balance too much if the hulk and the covetor had 12000 m3 ore bays bringing them in line with the procurer. They'd still be varied enough in performance to not overlap but the hulk and covetor might see some more use.

The way I see it, the barges need to be equal in 2 out of 3 aspects compared to the others and excel dramatically at 1.

Skiff/procurer:
combat capabilities is high
Ore hold is normal (12k-15k)
yield is normal

Mackinaw/retriever:
Ore hold is huge
combat abilities normal
yeild normal

Hulk/covetor:
Yeild is high
combat normal
ore hold normal

The way it is right now the skiff and mack perform 2 out of 3 roles better than hulk, leaving hulk behind. If the hulk had the tank pf the mack and the ore hold of the skiff, you would see people use it much more often. At least I think so.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#498 - 2014-04-19 23:25:56 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Quick suggestion, would it hurt balance too much if the hulk and the covetor had 12000 m3 ore bays bringing them in line with the procurer. They'd still be varied enough in performance to not overlap but the hulk and covetor might see some more use.

The way I see it, the barges need to be equal in 2 out of 3 aspects compared to the others and excel dramatically at 1.

Skiff/procurer:
combat capabilities is high
Ore hold is normal (12k-15k)
yield is normal

Mackinaw/retriever:
Ore hold is huge
combat abilities normal
yeild normal

Hulk/covetor:
Yeild is high
combat normal
ore hold normal

The way it is right now the skiff and mack perform 2 out of 3 roles better than hulk, leaving hulk behind. If the hulk had the tank pf the mack and the ore hold of the skiff, you would see people use it much more often. At least I think so.

You might be correct, but a bonused hulk, in my opinion, more than makes up the difference when in a supported fleet.
They don't need tank, or ore hold, since both are diminished to near meaningless with guarding and hauling.
h4kun4
The Validus
#499 - 2014-04-20 10:37:13 UTC
Looks like ok changes,

imho miners needed a buff for a long time, more minerals = dropping prices = always good for pvpers
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#500 - 2014-04-20 14:48:50 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
imho miners needed a buff for a long time, more minerals = dropping prices = always good for pvpers

Miners have understood this simple equation for years. "Leet peeveepee'errrs" don't. We're just targets to them, and then they kvetch about the prices they have to pay when replacing their losses.