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[Kronos] Mining Barges and Exhumers

First post First post First post
Author
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#461 - 2014-04-15 05:08:29 UTC
Linna Baresi wrote:
Personally, as a highsec Skiff pilot, I'd rather keep the scan resolution as is, and do without the extra drone bay space. I don't really see a change to mindnumbing boredom - rather the opposite - from making targeting on a skiff take longer... in other words making drones on agressive the preferred option for defense over actively targetting.

Well having roids pre-targeted might solve that, leave on slot empty incase of rats/hostiles, and the extra space is nice to fit mediums and a flight of mining drones plus 25m3 extra for whatever fits your fancy that day (repair drones in my case)
Dave Stark
#462 - 2014-04-15 07:04:42 UTC
Angeleh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

and you'll still have a 'gimped' orca. if by 'gimped' you mean "using one of your mid slots for a module it has a bonus for".


I assume that means you have tractor beams in the hi slots on your Orca?


why would i? currently a bonused mining ship can reach every asteroid in a high sec belt from the warp in point.

if you have a tractor beam, you don't need the range link.

you don't gimp an orca in any way by fitting a tractor beam.
Anthar Thebess
#463 - 2014-04-15 09:21:28 UTC
Make T2 Gas harvesting ship - why - hell, why not ?

Now when you make a dscan in wh you can almost always get some ventures on dscan - allow people fly something more expensive :)
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#464 - 2014-04-15 12:35:39 UTC
Since the pleas for making it worth a damn have been drowned in the flood of saliva over the shiny new turd that is 'revised' mining, I have a suggestion:

Add a crystal based overview script so that if one loads VELDSPAR! crystals, all other roid types are automatically unticked (one can have a mining preset to add them back). Seems unnecessary to have to either do it manually or have an OV preset for each type.

Just a small user-centric carrot to facilitate crystal use.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#465 - 2014-04-15 15:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Dave Stark wrote:
Angeleh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

and you'll still have a 'gimped' orca. if by 'gimped' you mean "using one of your mid slots for a module it has a bonus for".


I assume that means you have tractor beams in the hi slots on your Orca?


why would i? currently a bonused mining ship can reach every asteroid in a high sec belt from the warp in point.

if you have a tractor beam, you don't need the range link.

you don't gimp an orca in any way by fitting a tractor beam.

... and now we have MTU as well (can even be used with a freighter).

Still an extra mid and high would be nice.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#466 - 2014-04-15 17:52:24 UTC
Plz have person that designed the venture look do makeover on all the other mining vessels.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#467 - 2014-04-15 19:51:20 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Since the pleas for making it worth a damn have been drowned in the flood of saliva over the shiny new turd that is 'revised' mining, I have a suggestion:

Add a crystal based overview script so that if one loads VELDSPAR! crystals, all other roid types are automatically unticked (one can have a mining preset to add them back). Seems unnecessary to have to either do it manually or have an OV preset for each type.

Just a small user-centric carrot to facilitate crystal use.

What's a miner doing in PIE??!?
Plukovnik
korpa pYco
pYco.
#468 - 2014-04-15 21:39:49 UTC
Again another stupid change that makes lives of passive and lazy players in nullsec easier. One more change that allows them to do things easily, without any effort. And for small ship solo in nullsec... again one more step to make it even less possible. So many ships can be bait now, nobody even has to try hard to make a bait ship.

Please, refrain from all changes that make farmers and industrialists invulnerable to anything but gangs. Also, change NPC aggression so that they would only aggress people who aggress them. Now when NPCs actually guard the guy who is farming them from PVP hunter... that makes any sense?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#469 - 2014-04-15 21:46:49 UTC
Plukovnik wrote:
Again another stupid change that makes lives of passive and lazy players in nullsec easier. One more change that allows them to do things easily, without any effort. And for small ship solo in nullsec... again one more step to make it even less possible. So many ships can be bait now, nobody even has to try hard to make a bait ship.

Please, refrain from all changes that make farmers and industrialists invulnerable to anything but gangs. Also, change NPC aggression so that they would only aggress people who aggress them. Now when NPCs actually guard the guy who is farming them from PVP hunter... that makes any sense?

This must be NPC null you refer to.

In sov null, miners don't stay in belts while hostiles are present.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#470 - 2014-04-15 23:38:58 UTC
Plukovnik wrote:
Again another stupid change that makes lives of passive and lazy players in nullsec easier. One more change that allows them to do things easily, without any effort. And for small ship solo in nullsec... again one more step to make it even less possible. So many ships can be bait now, nobody even has to try hard to make a bait ship.

Please, refrain from all changes that make farmers and industrialists invulnerable to anything but gangs. Also, change NPC aggression so that they would only aggress people who aggress them. Now when NPCs actually guard the guy who is farming them from PVP hunter... that makes any sense?

So you want your targets to be easier to kill? If a fully trained pvp pilots jumps in barge he shouldn't have any combat capabilities? You want to remove risk on the side of the attacker?

Sounds more like to me that you are unwilling to adapt your current tactics against your targets.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#471 - 2014-04-16 06:31:24 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
The suggestion of an "Ammo Bay" or specialised hold specifically for mining crystals is actually a very good one.

I am also in the mind set that the only two useful Exhumers are the Skiff and the Mackinaw (and their T1 counterparts). The Hulk doesn't have enough of an advantage in m^3/min over the Mackinaw and it's tank is a little too weak. If the Hulk had the same Ore Hold as the Skiff and the tank of the Mackinaw and a 5-10% buff in m^3/min it would be appealing as a fleet option. Currently. It isn't!

Exactly. I'm using skiffs and procurers in all my mining fleets whether it be in null, low, or hs. This rebalance has actually made that even more desirable. For the extra yield, you are losing so much compared to the proc and skiff. Also if I am going to spend 200mil on a mining ship, then I don't want it to crumple like a paper bag as soon as the wind blows in the wrong direction, unless there is some significant bonus which makes that extra risk worthwhile.


I would be curious to see the average profit per hour for each ship(including lost ships).
Micheal York Solette
PathFinder's Initiative
#472 - 2014-04-16 15:44:46 UTC
Ok I was saying that a Covert Op's Venture would be great for the ultimate Ninja mining letting you get in to areas that on combat Covert OP's ship could go just think you get a fleet to black OP's drop in and take as much ore before the 0.0 group knows your there then when the scout send out the waning you jump out with your Booty.

Now on the Procurer/Skiff everyone is talking about a Drone combat bonus I have look several times at booth descriptions and can't find anything talking about it. So where is it listed?

MYS
javascript:insertsmiley('Cool','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png')
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#473 - 2014-04-16 15:49:02 UTC
Micheal York Solette wrote:
Ok I was saying that a Covert Op's Venture would be great for the ultimate Ninja mining letting you get in to areas that on combat Covert OP's ship could go just think you get a fleet to black OP's drop in and take as much ore before the 0.0 group knows your there then when the scout send out the waning you jump out with your Booty.

Now on the Procurer/Skiff everyone is talking about a Drone combat bonus I have look several times at booth descriptions and can't find anything talking about it. So where is it listed?

MYS
javascript:insertsmiley('Cool','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png')



You mean the : +50% Drone Damage and Hitpoints

role bonus for the skiff and procurer?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Shiftey Rhodes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2014-04-16 15:49:48 UTC
I think the problem with hulks (aside from obviously small ore bay) is the travel time. So despite higher yield, the average yield is drastically decreased by travel time for a solo miner. So your proposed changes will only strengthen corporations and alliances in mining ops, but all the solo lonely miners out there will take a hit. A bit like increasing taxes on the poor and giving more tax returns to the uber wealthy.

So instead of nearing Retrievers and Mackinaws a bit and increasing yield on Hulks (which isnt gonna make them more attractive for those lonely miners), you should consider a different approach. To make Hulk a viable choice for solo miners, you'd need to introduce a mobile reprocessing structure. Probably with 2 bays, one as ore input the other for mineral output, which you would collect with a cargo ship later on. (Probably would suggest same mineral hold as Kryos with maxed out skill).

This solution wouldnt make mining uber easy and more afky... cause it would require the miner to dumb his ore hold regurarly. I for one would love running a Hulk with this structure.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#475 - 2014-04-16 15:53:37 UTC
Shiftey Rhodes wrote:
I think the problem with hulks (aside from obviously small ore bay) is the travel time. So despite higher yield, the average yield is drastically decreased by travel time for a solo miner. So your proposed changes will only strengthen corporations and alliances in mining ops, but all the solo lonely miners out there will take a hit. A bit like increasing taxes on the poor and giving more tax returns to the uber wealthy.

So instead of nearing Retrievers and Mackinaws a bit and increasing yield on Hulks (which isnt gonna make them more attractive for those lonely miners), you should consider a different approach. To make Hulk a viable choice for solo miners, you'd need to introduce a mobile reprocessing structure. Probably with 2 bays, one as ore input the other for mineral output, which you would collect with a cargo ship later on. (Probably would suggest same mineral hold as Kryos with maxed out skill).

This solution wouldnt make mining uber easy and more afky... cause it would require the miner to dumb his ore hold regurarly. I for one would love running a Hulk with this structure.



This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.

Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#476 - 2014-04-16 16:00:12 UTC
Micheal York Solette wrote:
Ok I was saying that a Covert Op's Venture would be great for the ultimate Ninja mining letting you get in to areas that on combat Covert OP's ship could go just think you get a fleet to black OP's drop in and take as much ore before the 0.0 group knows your there then when the scout send out the waning you jump out with your Booty.

Now on the Procurer/Skiff everyone is talking about a Drone combat bonus I have look several times at booth descriptions and can't find anything talking about it. So where is it listed?

MYS
javascript:insertsmiley('Cool','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png')

check the stats, its a new role bonus 50% bonus to damage and hitpoints
Angeleh
Silverflames
#477 - 2014-04-16 21:31:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
[quote=Angeleh][quote=Dave Stark]


You would have to remove the fleet boost module to fit the tractor beam.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#478 - 2014-04-16 21:37:43 UTC
Here is a thought.

Give the Proc/Skiff a utility high. Keep the limit of only one mining module, but a utility high for a cloak, tractor beam, remote repper... whatever the case may be.

If the Proc/Skiff is to be the non pacifist choice in exhumers, let's have some fun with it.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#479 - 2014-04-16 22:30:34 UTC
Plukovnik wrote:
Again another stupid change that makes lives of passive and lazy players in nullsec easier. One more change that allows them to do things easily, without any effort. And for small ship solo in nullsec... again one more step to make it even less possible. So many ships can be bait now, nobody even has to try hard to make a bait ship.

Please, refrain from all changes that make farmers and industrialists invulnerable to anything but gangs. Also, change NPC aggression so that they would only aggress people who aggress them. Now when NPCs actually guard the guy who is farming them from PVP hunter... that makes any sense?


The rats in the belt are supposed to agress you. They are non capsuleer pirates/criminals etc. They probably don't even care as to which one of two competing capsuleers die first. Personally I wish they were smarter and more tactical but that's just me.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#480 - 2014-04-16 22:37:33 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is assuming that the Hulk is supposed to be used by the Solo miner. It's not. The Mack is.

Bear in mind, for the non-solo miner, there's a unproductive person involved, shuttling things around. You'll need three miners in hulks to make up for that person not being in a mack. (not paying attention to Orca boosts.)

Not entirely true... back in the deep dark days (actually, only about a year and a half ago, before my little one hatched) I would often mine solo in deep null with a hulk, while my alt flew a BC with a harvester optimization link and provided rat cover. Every two hours or so, I'd switch the alt to an iteron v to haul back to tower/station, then go back to the BC. Similar story when I lived in a class 3... BC for protection (and a finger busily on d-scan), then flipping to a hauler as needed.