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Stratios cloak reactivation delay issue.

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mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-04-03 00:53:00 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
For the record since T3 cruisers are at least as effective as T2 and require no significant skill training


Sounds like a good reason to nerf Tech 3 to me.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#22 - 2014-04-03 01:24:46 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:

So be thankful it is only 15 seconds instead of its original 30 seconds.



Quoted for emphasis. CCP already buffed the timer. What would be nice, on the other hand, would be an option to display the count down timer for recloaking and gate cloaking.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-04-03 01:33:44 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
For the record since T3 cruisers are at least as effective as T2 and require no significant skill training I think the whole "T2 ships require lots of extra skill training" argument is a total red herring. As is comparing a faction ship to vanilla T1. Plenty of other faction ships have abilities that match or exceed T2.


Im sorry but your attempt to make this a T2 vs T3 is itself the red herring.

As I already showed above, in the frigate realm you can effectively get into a "covert ops" frigate (astero) with almost the same capabilities as its T2 counterparts in 1/3 the time. So if the only real penalty is the cloak reactivation time its justified IMO.

In the cruiser realm it is hard to compare, because very little can compare to the stratios.

The ONLY other T2 covert cruisers are the 4 recons. And they can't hold a candle to the Stratios in terms of combat power.

Even when you compare to the T3 cruisers (which people complain are OP, which is a different argument) the ONLY T3 cruiser that can compete with damage output is the Proteus. A cloaky tengu,Loki, or legion does a fraction of the DPS a Stratios can do.

So for all its pluses, if the only real downside is a whopping 15 second cloak reactivation timer, then so be it. Well worth it for all of the ships benefits.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#24 - 2014-04-03 07:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
It's a really sweet ship, but it has one glaring issue that greatly detracts from the joy of flying it, which really irks me.

All other specialist cloaking ships have a role bonus of cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds. This applies to CovOps frigates, Stealth bombers, Blockade Runners, Recons (the bonus isn't explicitly listed but is still in effect), T3 cruisers with covert reconfiguration subsystem, and even Black Ops battleships!

But the Stratios doesn't get any cloak reactivation bonus at all.

This is a major pain in the arse because it means that after gate jumping you have to wait a few seconds and hold gate cloak because if you move straight away then you can't cloak for a few seconds. This obviously sucks big time since it gives anyone camping the gate much more time to get a bubble up and/or orbit the gate to decloak you.

I don't see any justification whatsoever for the Stratios to be the only ship penalized in this manner, so I respectfully suggest that it should get the cloak reactivation bonus to bring it in line with all other specialist cloaking ships.

Edit: I just noticed the Astero has the same issue, so same points apply for that.


To correct a few factual errors: The Astero and the Stratios had their cloak reactivation delay reduced to 15 seconds a short while ago, which sets them on the same level as a stealth bomber. Also stealth bombers have a 15 second reactivation delay instead of 5 seconds, you are wrong there, too. 15 seconds is good enough, by the way. More reduction would make the SOE-ships better then stealth bombers at stealth, which would be silly.

Look at the patch notes for Rubicon 1.1, under Gameplay.
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-04-03 08:37:35 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
To correct a few factual errors: The Astero and the Stratios had their cloak reactivation delay reduced to 15 seconds a short while ago, which sets them on the same level as a stealth bomber. Also ...


I never said the Astero and Stratios _didn't_ have their cloaking reactivation reduced to 15 seconds ion the first place, so that's not a factual error.

Owen Levanth wrote:
Also stealth bombers have a 15 second reactivation delay instead of 5 seconds, you are wrong there, too.


Yes you are right, (so that's one factual error), don't know how I missed that, and thanks for the link to patch notes too.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#26 - 2014-04-03 08:42:10 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
To correct a few factual errors: The Astero and the Stratios had their cloak reactivation delay reduced to 15 seconds a short while ago, which sets them on the same level as a stealth bomber. Also ...


I never said the Astero and Stratios _didn't_ have their cloaking reactivation reduced to 15 seconds ion the first place, so that's not a factual error.

Owen Levanth wrote:
Also stealth bombers have a 15 second reactivation delay instead of 5 seconds, you are wrong there, too.


Yes you are right, (so that's one factual error), don't know how I missed that, and thanks for the link to patch notes too.



Well, you said the Stratios doesn't get any cloaking reduction bonus, which is false. It's even in the post I quoted! (Cloak reactivation without bonus is 30 seconds minus the effect of your cloaking skill, by the way. This means of course ships with 5 or 15 second delay have in truth far shorter times, too: Your cloaking skill is already at 4 for the covert-ops cloak, which significantly reduces your reactivation delay even turther.)

In short: A further reduction of the cloaking reactivation time isn't needed.
Neutrino Sunset
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-04-03 15:29:09 UTC
Ok, fair enough. I've been looking at EFT and it doesn't help that the EFT descriptions don't always match the in game ones.

But according to the in game description the Cloaking skill affects the targetting delay after decloaking, not cloak reactivation delay. it that correct or does it have an undocumented additional behaviour that affects reactivation delay?

At least no one's disagreed that the Cloak module should display the reactivation delay.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-03 15:36:45 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Ok, fair enough. I've been looking at EFT and it doesn't help that the EFT descriptions don't always match the in game ones.

But according to the in game description the Cloaking skill affects the targetting delay after decloaking, not cloak reactivation delay. it that correct or does it have an undocumented additional behaviour that affects reactivation delay?

At least no one's disagreed that the Cloak module should display the reactivation delay.



Every module with a delay should have some sort of visual cue (OMG MJD is my 3 minutes up yet?)
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-04-03 16:07:57 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
Ok, fair enough. I've been looking at EFT and it doesn't help that the EFT descriptions don't always match the in game ones.

But according to the in game description the Cloaking skill affects the targetting delay after decloaking, not cloak reactivation delay. it that correct or does it have an undocumented additional behaviour that affects reactivation delay?

At least no one's disagreed that the Cloak module should display the reactivation delay.



Every module with a delay should have some sort of visual cue (OMG MJD is my 3 minutes up yet?)



This is in the works. It was requested with the introduction of Rapid L/H Missile Launchers. I believe it will be applied to all modules and not just weapon reload timers.

And yes...... those three minutes are a pain in the arse. I use a stop watch to keep track but I can't have 3 stop watches running in front of me to keep track of ASB's MJD's and RHML's. Need the UI fixing sooner rather than later
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#30 - 2014-04-04 19:35:51 UTC
30 seconds was an absolute disaster, and made the stratios quite unpleasnat to fly any distance in hostile space.
15 seconds though in my opinion is a reasonable length of time, like a stealth bomber one cannot engage and disengage with impunity, but travel is no longer an issue.

It Seems a reasonable decision to set it at 15 seconds and I for one am very grateful that CCP listened and acted on our concerns.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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