Ships & Modules

because people were used to being able to use the previously somewhat OP RLML to murder frigates more easily. Now they have to think a bit, and you know how angry get when they're asked to do that.

They're more frustrating than bad now. Sitting there watching the launchers blink during reload for 35 s can be so frustrating that some people just forget their DPS output during the previous 50 s. The inability to rapidly load the correct missile type is also a real pain.

I think the changing ammo types is a good example of how this mechanic has real world application issues - however i'm not convinced it's a huge nerf to dps. This is a copy-pasta from a spread sheet that represents The number of missiles fire by each launcher over a period of time. The top value is default, each subsequent value represents a 10% reduction in cycle time on the previous ROF all the way down to the equivalent of a Cerberus (25% rof) with perfect skills and 3x BCS. It's delimited with spaces if you want to do text-to-column.

RoF_Old RoF_New TT20_Old TT20_New Reload Missiles_For_RML
9.6 6.4 192 128 35 16.97916667
8.64 5.76 172.8 115.2 35 17.38425926
7.776 5.184 155.52 103.68 35 17.83436214
6.9984 4.6656 139.968 93.312 35 18.33447645
6.29856 4.19904 125.9712 83.9808 35 18.89015902
5.668704 3.779136 113.37408 75.58272 35 19.5075841
5.1018336 3.4012224 102.036672 68.024448 35 20.19361196
4.59165024 3.06110016 91.8330048 61.2220032 35 20.95586514
4.132485216 2.754990144 82.64970432 55.09980288 35 21.80281312
3.719236694 2.47949113 74.38473389 49.58982259 35 22.74386643

What does it say?

Basically: Until you drop the RoF of the RLML to under 3 seconds per cycle, the damage remains unchanged or increased against an old RLML even with the 35 sec reload time. The difference is that you front-load the damage which should be better for hit-and-run or overloading peoples tank-per-second.

Feel free to correct me, this is all math and i haven't used the module yet.

They are not bad, but they are more niche now instead of the previous default medium sized missile system.

In the case of a Caracal, RLML's are better now than they where before... Except if you want to change ammo type.

i haven't checked your numbers, but assuming you're right, how many cruiser sized ships are there that have a light missile damage bonus rather than a RLML RoF bonus? also, my pyfu tells me that a typical caracal is at around 2.6s cycles, which is terribad for rlml. essentially, if you do not manage to kill your target with the 15-20k damage you have in your launchers (which is admittedly enough to kill most frigs), you are at their mercy and unlikely to survive until you can fire again.

you are right in theory of course, but in practice, there might be a problem where the RLMLs provide your opponent with an obvious and relatively easy to exploit sweet spot: if he can bring up 20k EHP, he can be 99% sure of a 90 second window to apply whatever dps he has. in other words, it may become trivial to fit a specialized caracal killer that is still viable in other situations.

i have no horse in this race myself, but if i saw a lot of RLML action going on (which i don't), this would be the first thing i would look into.

that's a good example yes. if you have the means, just try to plot a graph with the caracals average dps for time windows between 0 seconds and, say, three minutes. again, i am not certain, but i strongly suspect that there are a lot of solo ships or small, cheap frigate gangs that can fit into the valleys that occur during the reload cycles. for example a gang of two cheap t1 blaster catalysts may have enough combined EHP for one of them to survive into reload while their dps are easily enough to kill the caracal in 90 seconds.

2 Destoyers killing a cruiser is not an entirely awful situation. Especially if they have to pay one of the destros to accomplish it. The no ammo switching is rough. The reload timer is all in the pilots head. HAMs are actually pretty good, especially on the Caracal and Cerb. HMLs are in a bad place right now.

If they could find a way around the ammo type issue I think most of the complaining would go away. They could make it so trying to switch ammo while charges were still in the launcher resulted in a 5 second timer with the new ammo replacing only the number previous loaded charges. Now to get a full load of different charges would require the 35 second reload time and another 5 second ammo switch but that seems like a sacrifice most would make for 5 sec ammo switches.

RLML are not automatically the go to weapon especially for solo these days, I feel like Heavies could be a much better weapon choice if to compensate for their dps nerf they were given a bit of an application buff.

That being said my corp has used paired RLML Cerbs on quite a few roams of late because they do very well in an anti-support role. Interceptors can be hard to kill with anything else unless they make a mistake and there's no e-war (TDs) that can be used against RLMLs to reduce their damage if you can't prevent a lock, so if you are using interceptors to tackle or really have any small hulls in your gang the Cerbs will make quick work of it and their dps is still OK against larger hulls if not sustainable. Scouts will allow you to swap damage types as you jump and warp making you ready to fight by the time you land so the inability to switch damage types is a big deal for solo, not so much otherwise.

Chessur often points out things that are correct but the scenarios he uses and points he makes are often oversimplified or exaggerated. Everything he says is worth considering but try to think about the things he's talking about as they would work out in most of the scenarios you encounter every day as opposed to the one he presents. Most ships are easy enough to predict any resistance holes and if they are not on the gate as you jump in d-scan will allow you to change damage types before you fight instead of during for example. Which is not to say the worst case scenario of jumping into an armor tanked gang while you have EM loaded isn't possible but rather that you are not always going to have to swap damage types in a fight.