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Open Question to the CSM and Candidates - New Player Engagement?

First post
Author
Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
#1 - 2014-03-29 14:58:41 UTC
As I look at the changes to the game, it looks like the paths to profitability for new players - humans with their very first toon - are growing scarce.

Recycling changes will mean that the meta 1 through meta 3 items will fall in price, since scrap metal recycling will have a lower efficiency.

Other recycling changes will mean that most first toons will have to sell ore and buy minerals to make things.

While the initial university training missions got buffed a year ago, the other level 1 missions have not been really buffed in a long time, and the variety of missions at level 1 is pretty limited.

How do we make the first 2 to 3 months of a new player’s life in Eve interesting enough to make the a long-term player?

What should CCP do to improve the variety of missions and options for new players?

Should they:
1) Extend the length of the +9 implant to get players skilled up more quickly
2) Offer more goodies in the initial training allowing players to have more of a buffer to experiment and lose ships in
3) Improve the newbie systems is some fashion to provide more isk opportunities
4) Do something else (please indicate what) to improve the conversion rate from trial to subscriber
5) Leave it to Eve University, Brave Newbies, etc. to find a path for these new players
6) Not worry about whether new players stay or not

I look forward to the CSM and candidate's responses.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2014-03-29 21:41:08 UTC
1: I'd say no. Not unless that implant is made freely available to all new accounts, rather than just the starter packs.
2: 20 million + a whole bunch of ships is plenty to get started with. Now, it's probably worth reworking things a bit, to make sure people actually go on the Blood Stained stars Arc. It's not that obvious.
3: I'd like to see things change wrt mining, to add a prospecting mechanism. That way, new players would have to compete less for the basic roids in the starter systems.
4: The ability to take a basic trial account, and 'upgrade' it to a buddy trial would be valuable. Restarting isn't good.
5: BNI and E-Uni do great work. They're not the only groups to do it, but they are good ones.
6: It's always a concern.

(yes, I know you expected us to pick just one. But it's more complicated than that)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-31 01:48:48 UTC
The NPE has come miles and miles in the past few years but that does not mean that it is perfect.

1) Extend the length of the +9 implant to get players skilled up more quickly

Um, No. That just lets ganks fleets form and set up even quicker

2) Offer more goodies in the initial training allowing players to have more of a buffer to experiment and lose ships in

See the above

3) Improve the newbie systems is some fashion to provide more isk opportunities

There is a lot to do in the newbie systems as it is. Any high isk return would wind up being hogged by alts of experienced players

4) Do something else (please indicate what) to improve the conversion rate from trial to subscriber

Some games have dropped players in it high level (Secret World for example) to give players a taste of what is to come and then reset them back as starters. Imagine being in a choreographed battle for Asakai or BR but without the tidi. A taste of fleets and grandeur and then you are killed, podded and awoken 'much later', having experienced the last moments of another pilot, a recording that was preserved. They could see how complex the game will be, have goals to work towards. Be DRAWN IN

5) Leave it to Eve University, Brave Newbies, etc. to find a path for these new players

Look, the recruitment channel is a mess. We do need a tutorial that guides people through the business of making/joining/running a corp It is a lesson that is missing.

6) Not worry about whether new players stay or not

Really? No

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#4 - 2014-03-31 09:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
Mike Azariah wrote:
Some games have dropped players in it high level (Secret World for example) to give players a taste of what is to come and then reset them back as starters. Imagine being in a choreographed battle for Asakai or BR but without the tidi. A taste of fleets and grandeur and then you are killed, podded and awoken 'much later', having experienced the last moments of another pilot, a recording that was preserved. They could see how complex the game will be, have goals to work towards. Be DRAWN IN

Not your idea :p
(I really love it nonetheless and please push for it! :D)

EDIT:
Thinking some more about it..
It's really hard to settle for a suitable example to put the new player in. There's various sizes of battles and they appeal to different people. Go big because that is what players heard in the news? Or go medium because that portrays a more realistic future for the new pilot?
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-01 02:28:41 UTC
I steal from the best and try to keep good ideas alive

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2014-04-01 10:04:03 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I steal from the best and try to keep good ideas alive

m



Which is kind of the point of a member of the CSM Smile

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-02 01:41:41 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:


EDIT:
Thinking some more about it..
It's really hard to settle for a suitable example to put the new player in. There's various sizes of battles and they appeal to different people. Go big because that is what players heard in the news? Or go medium because that portrays a more realistic future for the new pilot?


I know I say this a lot . . .why either or? Why not provide a few options as cutscenes depending on what the player wants to see/try.

For Asakai press 1
For a small gank gate camp press 2
For a one on one against a faction ship press 3

you could even branch the choices . . . for a bomber wing in asakai press 11, for a Dreadnaught under fire press 12 etc

They get nothing but the experience, no isk, no reward, so let them see what different parts of the game look like, set goals and horizons

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Angry Mustache
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2014-04-02 01:48:21 UTC
Albert Spear wrote:
As I look at the changes to the game, it looks like the paths to profitability for new players - humans with their very first toon - are growing scarce.

Recycling changes will mean that the meta 1 through meta 3 items will fall in price, since scrap metal recycling will have a lower efficiency.

Other recycling changes will mean that most first toons will have to sell ore and buy minerals to make things.

While the initial university training missions got buffed a year ago, the other level 1 missions have not been really buffed in a long time, and the variety of missions at level 1 is pretty limited.

How do we make the first 2 to 3 months of a new player’s life in Eve interesting enough to make the a long-term player?

What should CCP do to improve the variety of missions and options for new players?

Should they:
1) Extend the length of the +9 implant to get players skilled up more quickly
2) Offer more goodies in the initial training allowing players to have more of a buffer to experiment and lose ships in
3) Improve the newbie systems is some fashion to provide more isk opportunities
4) Do something else (please indicate what) to improve the conversion rate from trial to subscriber
5) Leave it to Eve University, Brave Newbies, etc. to find a path for these new players
6) Not worry about whether new players stay or not

I look forward to the CSM and candidate's responses.


1. No, but what they could do is give all "new players" (defined as accounts with less than a certain amount of SP trained) a flat training speed boost, and not allow them to remap, or make the boost lost on first remap. This would allow newbies to cross-train into all sorts of skills just to try them without having to waste remaps or even badly remap.

2. There could definitely be more goodies from the tutorials and blood-stained stars. I just ran through the newbie missions once, and i had about 5 million isk's worth of goods after one run-through. While it's a lot better than it used to be, it's not nearly as much purchasing power because of overall rise in income. The other point is the 21day invites, which can start a newbie off with up to 450-500 million isk after referral, the problem is lack of knowledge of this program in newbies.

3. As it stands, newbies can make incredible money farming FW complexes, a week old character can nab 50mil+/hour in FW with a bit of care. The problems is that it's the only newbie friendly activity that pays nearly as well, it restricts activity, and it's franking really bad game design.

4. The best thing to do to convert trial to subscriber is to get the trial character involved in a community, such as Brave and E-uni. The problem is that these communicates often require subs to even qualify. Frankly, even a 21 day eve trial is very very short, and the trial could stand to be a lot longer.

5. Continuing from 4, player communities can do far better than anything CCP creates. Eve uni does a great job of turning potential subs into long term subs. I've personally yet to see a goonswarm newbie quit the game after a month or so.

6. Of course newbies matter.

An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department.

Heinel Sidewind
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
#9 - 2014-04-02 09:55:28 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Sephira Galamore wrote:


EDIT:
Thinking some more about it..
It's really hard to settle for a suitable example to put the new player in. There's various sizes of battles and they appeal to different people. Go big because that is what players heard in the news? Or go medium because that portrays a more realistic future for the new pilot?


I know I say this a lot . . .why either or? Why not provide a few options as cutscenes depending on what the player wants to see/try.

For Asakai press 1
For a small gank gate camp press 2
For a one on one against a faction ship press 3

you could even branch the choices . . . for a bomber wing in asakai press 11, for a Dreadnaught under fire press 12 etc

They get nothing but the experience, no isk, no reward, so let them see what different parts of the game look like, set goals and horizons

m


As good as this idea sound. EVE is no spectator sport. The actual action is actually just as boring as the rest of the game.

The actual fun part, the stakes behind the battles, etc, the new player has no point of reference to.
Esha Amphal
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-04-07 23:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Esha Amphal
Albert Spear wrote:
How do we make the first 2 to 3 months of a new player’s life in Eve interesting enough to make them a long-term player?

What should CCP do to improve the variety of missions and options for new players?

4) Do something else (please indicate what) to improve the conversion rate from trial to subscriber
5) Leave it to Eve University, Brave Newbies, etc. to find a path for these new players


The fact of the matter is there are many interesting and lucrative opportunities available to a new player, right from the beginning. The problem is most of them aren't obvious. They don't come to the average newbro's mind, and the variety of hints dropped isn't enough to spark ideas and interest. Aura and the career agents lead a player down a basic PvE route of missioning & mining, point them to the market, ask them to build some ammo and a frigate, tell them about scanning probes and send them on their way.

Some newbros can't stand tutorials. Some cling to them. I don't think making the tutorials any shorter or longer will alleviate the problem. I think it's more about the content (which has improved somewhat). For those that actually stop and read the mission text (who does that?) there are a few hints about pirating, gate camping, scamming etc... but words are pixel scribbles on a screen. A new player's life should be about action.

The high security culture is something a new player is going to encounter, at least for a short time (because they have little control over their starting system). Most probably longer. Retrievers chewing on rocks, freighters carrying goods about, mission runners blowing up weak AI red crosses, et cetera are the norm there. Risk aversion pervades throughout the area, carebears are the common wildlife, but this is precisely the best time to take risks. No one knows who you are, you're in a dinky little rookie ship, you have a spit in the ocean worth of skill points... Tell me, what exactly do you have to lose in your first week?

If ideas like missioner ganking, ninja looting & salvaging, ransoming, suicide ganking, spying, aw0xing, safaris, corp theft, wardec extortion, contract scamming, can flipping, solo pvp, factional warfare, wormhole exploration, station trading, market manipulation, planetary interaction, poco control, et cetera, and let's not forget metagaming and making ISK on the outside... *inhales a sharp breath* ...if newbros were nudged in the direction of any of these many available opportunities, player retention would improve.

Eve is big, bad, dark and scary though. First thought to cross most newbro's minds is to join the rank and file of high sec, do their mining rite of passage or go through the motions of level 1, 2, 3 & 4 missions. When most MMORPGs on the market have been theme parks a lot of gamers don't even know what a sandbox is, let alone what they are immediately able to do in it... and when their first steps don't lead them in a sandbox-oriented direction I can't blame them for not noticing.

So what should CCP do to improve missions? Are missions interesting to you? Are they what you would show your friends if you were serious about keeping your friends around in Eve? They're necessary, they're a valid playstyle, some people like them, but if you're looking to knock your buddies out of the park and get them hooked long term I'd be introducing them to other activities.

That's literally where it starts too. With us. CCP has limited resources. They can only focus on so much at once. Meanwhile there are organizations out there like Eve University, Red vs Blue, Brave Newbies, Belligerent Undesirables, etc trying their best to show something different about the game. Showing that there are options, and they are plentiful. You could leave it to them, or we the individuals can encourage others to do similar on a smaller scale. Little differences add up over time. People take notice when you strike out from the norm. Some of them get an idea to do similar. So go ahead and push your little snowball down the snowy mountainside.
Einear Lightfingers
Outer Rim Oreworks Company
Galactic Republic Alliance
#11 - 2014-04-08 00:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Einear Lightfingers
Albert Spear wrote:
As I look at the changes to the game, it looks like the paths to profitability for new players - humans with their very first toon - are growing scarce.

Recycling changes will mean that the meta 1 through meta 3 items will fall in price, since scrap metal recycling will have a lower efficiency.

Other recycling changes will mean that most first toons will have to sell ore and buy minerals to make things.

While the initial university training missions got buffed a year ago, the other level 1 missions have not been really buffed in a long time, and the variety of missions at level 1 is pretty limited.

How do we make the first 2 to 3 months of a new player’s life in Eve interesting enough to make the a long-term player?

What should CCP do to improve the variety of missions and options for new players?

Should they:
1) Extend the length of the +9 implant to get players skilled up more quickly
2) Offer more goodies in the initial training allowing players to have more of a buffer to experiment and lose ships in
3) Improve the newbie systems is some fashion to provide more isk opportunities
4) Do something else (please indicate what) to improve the conversion rate from trial to subscriber
5) Leave it to Eve University, Brave Newbies, etc. to find a path for these new players
6) Not worry about whether new players stay or not

I look forward to the CSM and candidate's responses.


1) As my CSM Candidate peers have already pointed out this option would most definitely be exploited and thus really not an option.
2) Offering additional goodies on top of the immense offerings would not be good for the game as the current offerings have collapsed the market for some ships/modules/skill books that are given away as part of tutorials.
3) Expanding the opportunities in a newbie system in general terms sounds nice but needs to be monitored to insure that vets do not capitalize on the expanded availability with low grade alts.
4) This is really not a solution to new players, but more of an offering to older players to assist newer players by writing expanded tutorials on topics CCP/EVE do not currently touch. Last year while attending Fanfest I met a man who several years before the localize Japanese EVE client was available wrote and hosted his own tutorials to assist non-english speaking Japanese players learn to play EVE. The individual as far as I know has never been recognized by EVE but he helped spawn a new community for EVE enough so it required the creation of a localized client. Perhaps CCP/EVE can offer incentives for players to expand upon the existing tutorials and this could in turn be done by new players as they complete the CCP standard tutorials and find holes in the existing offerings. Having new players grade these submissions on content and based on the score lead to a free month of EVE for the tutorial author.
5) The player run help communities have done very well in assisting new players. I unfortunately never took part in their trainings and in many respects I wish I had the big brother to steer me in the right direction. Instead I signed with my first corp cause they gave me 1 million isk, what I know now would have certainly helped me then. My next corp was some but not a lot of help, it proved to be a social network. In the end most the things I know I have either learned through hard lessons or at the butt of jokes in local. The player run help groups should in my opinion get some form of compensation from CCP for their assistance even if it is a well researched T1 BPC for building ships to replace loses.
6) We need to all be worried about new players and their continued subscriptions. New players are new blood as old players move on. The bring fresh ideas and will lead EVE through the potential next 10 years.

Thank you for the opportunity to answer your question(s). I have not done a lot of campaigning and you have afforded me the luxury of voicing my opinions.