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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1841 - 2014-04-01 10:30:15 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet.


Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument Smile


I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither.




Heard he is banned for 30days.


My understanding is that someone suggested a 30 day ban for him, and a poster that followed misunderstood and said "oh, so only a 30 day ban for sohkar but a perma ban for E1?" I'd like to know if I'm wrong about this.

CCP, I realize you have a policy of not discussing moderation and disciplinary action against players, but I honestly think you should make an exception to that rule in this case. Every little thing you do or don't do regarding this fiasco is sending a message to the community, and your messages need to be CLEAR. We need to know what IS and IS NOT acceptable.

You took 1 step in this direction by laying out that it is not acceptable to continue to pick at someone you've already pissed off (which I think is ridiculous, but hey, it's your game,) NOW you need to be clear on if it is or is not acceptable to issue real life death threats and racial slurs against someone if they have first broken the rules and picked on you or hurt your wee little feelings too much.

Where is THAT line drawn?

We need to know.



Look at it like this, what Erotica1 did is no different to anything done in the meta game. There is no difference between this and hellcamping an alliance into a station while trolling them on forums. Its no different to continually wardeccing a corp or alliance then trolling them about it. Erotica1 is a strange individual - probably a bit of a sociopath - but didn't do anything hundreds of other people do every day on EVE - he scammed and then trolled, albeit on Teamspeak rather than ingame chat or on a forum . He just happened to find the right person to fall for the entire 'experience'.

What CCP did here was set a precedence. There is an invisible line which can be crossed when scamming and trolling which is only known to them.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1842 - 2014-04-01 10:37:00 UTC
arabella blood wrote:


If we look at it from a pure law view. According to my country's laws Sohkar might be found guilty, but its almost 100% his sentence will be reduced.


Here in the U.S. the laws very from state to state, but in the state in which I reside, as well as in the majority of states, the mere act of threatening to inflict bodily harm on someone is considered to be the crime of "assault," and you can be put in jail and heavily fined for it. I've seen it happen many many times, as I was once a bail bondsman for several years, and I dealt with it firsthand.

Quote:

In my language there is a saying that tranlates to "a person in agony should not be judged" - it is 2000 years old.


In my country we have a saying, "Equal Justice Under the Law." That means that the same rules apply to everyone. Here, had Sohkar been taken to court regarding his assault on E1, he would be found guilty, because "he just wouldn't stop picking at me" is not considered a legitimate excuse for threatening to murder someone, nor should it be imo.

Quote:

But it might all boil down to this: did anyone even make a ticket about it?


Not only did Sohkar not make a ticket, he has freely admitted in a public forum that he too should be banned for his violation of the TOS.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1843 - 2014-04-01 10:40:36 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:

Look at it like this, what Erotica1 did is no different to anything done in the meta game. There is no difference between this and hellcamping an alliance into a station while trolling them on forums. Its no different to continually wardeccing a corp or alliance then trolling them about it. Erotica1 is a strange individual - probably a bit of a sociopath - but didn't do anything hundreds of other people do every day on EVE - he scammed and then trolled, albeit on Teamspeak rather than ingame chat or on a forum . He just happened to find the right person to fall for the entire 'experience'.


Agreed.

Quote:

What CCP did here was set a precedence. There is an invisible line which can be crossed when scamming and trolling which is only known to them.


What CCP really needs to realize is that they have set TWO precedences. The first you just said, the second is this: It's acceptable to use racist slurs and even issue threats of real life bodily harm and murder if the person youre threatening is unpopular with the community or has excessively trolled you or otherwise made you, and I quote, "reach the point of losing control over your emotions."

Mindfracking someone? -Not acceptable
Threatening to MURDER someone after theyve mindfracked you? -A OK


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#1844 - 2014-04-01 11:04:36 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet.


Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument Smile


I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither.




Heard he is banned for 30days.


proof and source?



Curious as well.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1845 - 2014-04-01 11:09:29 UTC
I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.

Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.

That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.

Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.

This is not a signature.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1846 - 2014-04-01 11:12:18 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.

Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.

That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.

Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.



Where I come from, if I were to press assault charges against you for threatening to murder me, the "he pissed me off really really bad" defense would not be accepted by the court, and you would go to jail and pay a hefty fine.



\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Reizak StormFury
Perkone
Caldari State
#1847 - 2014-04-01 11:21:46 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You lost. HTFU and deal with it :)


That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?


Or maybe he just said his piece and doesn't give a **** what anybody thinks about it.


Yeah, and that's a great thing to have in an elected official, who's meant to represent the concerns and opinions of the community in general.

Not just "say your piece, and not give a ****".
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#1848 - 2014-04-01 11:22:33 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.

Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.

That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.

Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.



Where I come from, if I were to press assault charges against you for threatening to murder me, the "he pissed me off really really bad" defense would not be accepted by the court, and you would go to jail and pay a hefty fine.





Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#1849 - 2014-04-01 11:27:35 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


Not only did Sohkar not make a ticket, he has freely admitted in a public forum that he too should be banned for his violation of the TOS.




You guys keep beating that dead horse all the time. The truth is no one buys it, not CCP and not anyone with half a brain.
Time to get over it, im out :)

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#1850 - 2014-04-01 11:31:27 UTC
Reizak StormFury wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You lost. HTFU and deal with it :)


That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?


Or maybe he just said his piece and doesn't give a **** what anybody thinks about it.


Yeah, and that's a great thing to have in an elected official, who's meant to represent the concerns and opinions of the community in general.

Not just "say your piece, and not give a ****".


He is not runing to next CSM elections. That was his farewell gift to the community o/

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1851 - 2014-04-01 11:42:55 UTC
Only problem is that the entire thing is rigged. Scammers have discretionary power over the outcome. They can make the contender sing or POD him indefinitely or make other stupid requests as real life photos or any other crazy thing that may cross the mind. So the question is not if the contender will break but rather when.

Oh yeah, sometimes somebody wins. Giving 10 bil back after you hustled 100 bil is affordable and also buys publicity and legitimacy. If the winner is a close buddy or alt of .... did i need say more. Plus the bonus room with Shokar is the most shameful display of human interaction and emerges in the worst type of game-play I ever witness in a MMORPG.

CCP did the right thing in laying the hammer IMHO.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1852 - 2014-04-01 11:48:52 UTC
Loko Crackhead wrote:
Only problem is that the entire thing is rigged. Scammers have discretionary power over the outcome. They can make the contender sing or POD him indefinitely or make other stupid requests as real life photos or any other crazy thing that may cross the mind. So the question is not if the contender will break but rather when.

Oh yeah, sometimes somebody wins. Giving 10 bil back after you hustled 100 bil is affordable and also buys publicity and legitimacy. If the winner is a close buddy or alt of .... did i need say more. Plus the bonus room with Shokar is the most shameful display of human interaction and emerges in the worst type of game-play I ever witness in a MMORPG.

CCP did the right thing in laying the hammer IMHO.


Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1853 - 2014-04-01 11:49:35 UTC
arabella blood wrote:

Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...


Movies are real and we should follow their example as to how to live our real lives

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1854 - 2014-04-01 11:52:57 UTC
Eve is real.

WOOT! FIRST! Lol

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#1855 - 2014-04-01 12:23:01 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
If you ban one you have to ban the other.



This is false, and also not valid in RL.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1856 - 2014-04-01 12:24:25 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.



NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1857 - 2014-04-01 12:24:30 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
If you ban one you have to ban the other.



This is false, and also not valid in RL.


Elaborate, please.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1858 - 2014-04-01 12:27:29 UTC
Loko Crackhead wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.



NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.


I could maybe live with that, although I'm not comfortable with the idea that crossing the line is accepted or dealt with less harshly simply because someone else was, in essence, trolling you, even if to an extreme degree. Once you sink to your antagonists level you become no better than him.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1859 - 2014-04-01 12:27:52 UTC
Loko Crackhead wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:


Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.



NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.


The community have already taken action in their own way

Anything further would actually be more than he deserved.

Not that that would have ANY bearing on anythign CCP decided

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#1860 - 2014-04-01 12:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: arabella blood
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
If you ban one you have to ban the other.



This is false, and also not valid in RL.


Elaborate, please.




Its pretty long actually. So much proffesional literature written about it that i had to study in law school and there is no simple way to explain.

I will try with to explane with an extreme example:
4 people are covicted of murder.
1 is an old person, has cancer and is 90 years old.
2 is a young lady, pregnant with a baby, first offence.
3 is a criminal, 2nd murder for him.
4 is a guy who were threatend and extorted to commit the murder.

All were convicted. Should they all get same jail time?

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.