These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1501 - 2014-03-29 19:18:35 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

There is a difference between using the game as a tool to inflict real life malice, grief and humiliation versus someone ranting on twitter or quibbling with another player.


You'll have a hard time making your case for "malice, grief, and humiliation" when not even the "victim" involved feels this way.

You could make a case that CCP no longer wants bonus rooms and people being mean toward each other ... well, "just because" CCP wants it that way ... but it seems the opposite is true.

Intent does not depend on how the message or signal was received.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Salvos Rhoska
#1502 - 2014-03-29 19:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP.


Ok.

Where is your list of said questions?

You have clearly stated that you have no interest in an answer from CCP on your questions, and instead want to discuss YOUR questions with the rest of us.

It is beyond me why you think that any of us are in a position to answer your questions about CCPs OWN policies and OWN statements, but whatever floats your boat, dude.

So, lets do this.

Where are your questions?
Vara Vampira
Fwehman Brothers Holdings
#1503 - 2014-03-29 19:19:59 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Vara Vampira wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.



how CCP was forced to feel by the masses and corrupt CSM you mean?


How you seem to fail to realise that some things are more important than role-playing in a game you mean?


who says anything about roleplaying?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1504 - 2014-03-29 19:20:18 UTC
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1505 - 2014-03-29 19:21:54 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.


Ahhh - semantics - the last bastion of the desperate.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Salvos Rhoska
#1506 - 2014-03-29 19:22:27 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You've met me?


meet 1 (mēt)
v. met (mĕt), meet·ing, meets
v.tr.
1. To come upon by chance or arrangement.
2. To be present at the arrival of: met the train.
3. To be introduced to.
4. To come into conjunction with; join: where the sea meets the sky.
5. To come into the company or presence of, as for a conference.
6. To come to the notice of (the senses): There is more here than meets the eye.
7. To experience; undergo: met his fate with courage.
8. To deal with; oppose: "We have met the enemy and they are ours" (Oliver Hazard Perry).
9. To cope or contend effectively with: meet each problem as it arises.
10. To come into conformity with the views, wishes, or opinions of: The firm has done its best to meet us on that point.
11. To satisfy (a need, for example); fulfill: meet all the conditions in the contract. See Synonyms at satisfy.
12. To pay; settle: enough money to meet expenses.

Next question?

Keep em coming.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#1507 - 2014-03-29 19:23:54 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.


Come on Lucas, you are running out of steam. Pick up the pace, I might have to switch threads.

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits

Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1508 - 2014-03-29 19:25:07 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.


Ahhh - semantics - the last bastion of the desperate.


Did you read the drivel it was in reply to?
Semantics?
Right.

Lucas Kell wrote:

Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.


D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1509 - 2014-03-29 19:26:22 UTC
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.


does it have to be an either or, here?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1510 - 2014-03-29 19:29:06 UTC
D

I did read what it was replied to.

It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)

You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?

Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that.

Aaaaaaand relax.

olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1511 - 2014-03-29 19:29:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
They cant as that would be a public statement condoning harassment of a player as long is it does not cause a headache.

To use the appropriate analogy, If a criminal incriminates himself, on say Facebook gets caught and goes to prison for a crime. The prosecutor and police have every right to use that evidence.

lets say criminal B breaks the law gets away with it by not spreading it over facebook. His actions are still morally reprehensible , and illegal, but hes got away with it , and the police and prosecutor office may not have enough evidence to convict. Lack of evidence does not make somthing ok. It just makes it harder to prosecute
It wouldn't it would be a restatement of the exact same policy they've had for 10 years, which is that they only deal with situations that occur within EVE, and not on third party websites or comms tools.

CCP are not a court of law, their responsibility ends when EVE does, the same as Facebook's responsibility ends with Facebook. Facebook wouldn't ban a user for a statement they made on twitter, even if it was against a Facebook user.



they would if facebook was also used in that scenario. In-game content was used to coerce the victims compliance . Thats what gives CCP the right to intervene here. The evidence can be used by CCP as it was published by the perpetrator , . When it comes to the service they provide they can cut it off if they can justify the breaking of the EULA with regards to service content use just like any service provider. Its CCP service and rules. If you dont like it unsub
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1512 - 2014-03-29 19:30:44 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.
Come on Lucas, you are running out of steam. Pick up the pace, I might have to switch threads.
I'm doing stuff, you'll have to help out in making some of the fun.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1513 - 2014-03-29 19:34:31 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
they would if facebook was also used in that scenario. In-game content was used to coerce the victims compliance . Thats what gives CCP the right to intervene here. The evidence can be used by CCP as it was published by the perpetrator , . When it comes to the service they provide they can cut it off if they can justify the breaking of the EULA with regards to service content use just like any service provider. Its CCP service and rules. If you dont like it unsub
No, they really wouldn't. If we had a chat on facebook, then I got you to come over to twitter and harassed you, that would be entirely for twitter to deal with. The thing is, that's the exact same way CCP have operated since the beginning of EVE. They've only changed their stance now due to public outcry. And CCP have the right to intervene wherever they want, but we also have the right to know how far outside of CCPs services they are going to enforce their EULA. I'm quite shocked that so many members of the community seem to be happy with being given zero information on the extend of the rule changes when they can't even do a patch without patch notes and not instantly get hundreds of threads about it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1514 - 2014-03-29 19:40:07 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412145#post4412145

^^ read that sums up nicely

CCP FALCON Quote

"
In terms of hard data based on player age, we have an extremely mature community.

It's quite clear that we also have an extremely intelligent community, even if sometimes the content posted on these forums is to the contrary. I think that playing EVE requires a certain level of intelligence, thickness of skin, and ability to deal with your fellow man in circumstances that are sometimes not to your favor.

However, there's a line as to how severe those circumstances should get, and I'll paraphrase Mynxee by saying that this line needs to be drawn at the point where the alleged victim starts to lose emotional control. We can't set an arbirarty line for this, as this is different for everyone, and every situation. There must be a willingness by those involved to recognise when that point has been reached and realize, with positive community spirit in mind, that they should stop and honor that line with humaine and decent behaviour.

In the same respect, there must also be a level of responsibility held by CCP to ensure that we have the wellbeing of our community and each of our players at the forefront of our minds during the decision making process when an issue like this comes up.

It may be regarded as an "arbitrary" decision from the outside, but generally issues of this nature are investigated by multiple teams within CCP for a number of weeks before any action is taken and due to our privacy policy, we aren't going to release information on individual cases.

We have done this only once in the past, and this was due to the fact that the individual involved was the chairman of the Council of Stellar Management, which put us in an extraordinary position in terms of clariflying the situation.

In the end, scam, AWOX and betray eachother as much as you like. Steal from eachother as much as you like. Gank, pod and sabotage eachother as much as you like. These are the stories that drive gameplay in EVE, and we are not looking to re-define the sandbox. We do however need to make it clear that in the, end every sandbox has edges just the same as EVE has limits, and those limits are built on a basic level of empathy, understanding and humaine behavior.

EVE has a community that to be perfectly honest, I've been extremely proud to be a part of for the last 11 years despite all the ups and downs, the drama, the summer of rage, the bad posting and the sometimes inappropriate content that comes out of it. That community is core to EVE's continued success, and the last 11 years of history is built on the shoulders of everyone who has touched New Eden.

Being asked to take on the role of Community Manager for EVE Online last year was both a surprise and a priviliege. Believe me, after being so close to the core of the community we've built over the last 11 years, there's nothing more I want than to see it continue to grow, but we are not in a position where we can paint ourselves into a corner in terms of being able to act on our own policies with the health and wellbeing of our community in mind. "
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1515 - 2014-03-29 19:42:08 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
D

I did read what it was replied to.

It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)

You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?

Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that.
I disagree, there's always more to say. It's never to late to take on board more responses to a subject and continue to re-evaluate your own position and the positions of others.

Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Vance Armistice
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1516 - 2014-03-29 19:44:57 UTC
Anyone find out how long the ban is? All of this sperging could be over a 30 day or something...
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1517 - 2014-03-29 19:46:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
D

I did read what it was replied to.

It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)

You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?

Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that.
I disagree, there's always more to say. It's never to late to take on board more responses to a subject and continue to re-evaluate your own position and the positions of others.

Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time.


Indeed - and as such perhaps you have a higher level of cognition than some of the people that find themselves in these situations.

It still doesn't make pushing them to an edge, morally OK. If you were in that situation as the person executing the scam I would hope that you could see the point where it stopped being funny. My line is probably waaaay before yours or Ero1's.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1518 - 2014-03-29 19:47:58 UTC
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Dorn Val wrote:
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Dorn Val wrote:


Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled.


Dorn I think everyone realizes you do not agree with how this situation was handled by now.

But if you prefer post it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

I am sure it will change everything.

Roll


Dorn Val looks at your corporation and wants you to point to the doll and show everyone where the miner bumpers touched you :)


IIRC I have only ever seen a miner bumper once across several Eve accounts. He was having a hissy fit in local because he got concorded after bravely firing on an un-armed mining ship. Was kinda cute.


LOL. Their tears taste like crispy bacon :)

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...

Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1519 - 2014-03-29 19:49:09 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
D

I did read what it was replied to.

It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)

You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?

Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that.


Not only do I want to repeat Sokhar was abusive but also that said abuse started early on in the conversation not after 2 hours of stalling and ranting on his part and that of the others present.
Also he wasn't abused and there was no intent to harm him. To add insult to injury, intent can't be made clear by listening to that recording and usually those things don't have the effect it had with Sokhar. If the intent was to get the contestant to rage than they failed 99.9% of the time.
You think I fail to grasp the wider situation while ignoring the blogpost of Ripard that got this whole mess started in the first place. That's the wider situation, sorry you fail to realise that.

Anyhow, so you don't condone calling fellow players stupid because they have a different opinion than you. And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that.

Wait... CSM Mike Azariah thinks it's cool to call people stupid. I'll concede and go cry in a corner after being forum neutered by a CSM.


Or not.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Salvos Rhoska
#1520 - 2014-03-29 19:51:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Danalee wrote:
And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that


Uhm no.

He has repeatedly refused to present his questions directly to CCP.

Instead he is asking OTHER PLAYERS, repeatedly, with questions that nobody else except CCP is authorised to answer.
(Which makes no sense whatsoever.)

Which is exactly the opposite of what you think.

Please, try to keep up and read accurately. You are just embarrassing yourself.