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708M.. cheapest PLEX in Jita.

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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#101 - 2014-03-27 14:44:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nothing the NeX or AUR does requires NeX or AUR to do so — it could all be done far better through pre-existing means, and would actually provide added sandbox content to the game that way.


Sure Incarna got halted mid sentence practically, but we have it, and people do like avatar items, regardless of what happens to incarna. But this part i quoted is what I don't understand. Are you saying the nex/aur items should be supplied in game without additional revenue for CCP? IMO, assuming those items do exist as MT items (most people seem find with this), then AUR does exactly what its supposed to (minus being non-transferable, that's weird).

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#102 - 2014-03-27 14:48:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Slade Trillgon wrote:
I may have oversimplified things. CCP was trying to move towards a 'free to play' structure. Free to play games make their money because they control one form of currency that is only used for specific things in game.
They weren't really doing that either. They were simply trying to cash in on the MT craze by shoe-horning it into a game that had no room or affordances for MT and double-dip on their subscription model.

Moreover, F2P games generally make their money by leveraging an out-of-game commodity: time. You pay the company to skip time. In some cases, you pay to expand the service level, and they leverage out-of-game convenience. That was never the plan here. (They tried that the first time anything MT-like was proposed and were violently shouted down by the community). Instead, they went the virtual goods route, and having to involve various currencies was just a necessity that came with trying to find at least some connection to the overall game, since the goods themselves were tied to part of the game that wasn't even ready for beta…


That explains what I was thinking better. They are getting more cash than they would otherwise get with just the pure subscription...but I do agree with your final post above that it would be better/immersive if they utilized blue prints and/or the LP store for all of this, but CCP must believe that the Nex store would probably generate more additional cash flow. And my main point still stands that CCP is providing non game effecting content better than their competitors are doing.



Tippia wrote:
In the most simplified form:
F2P means providing the game for free and withholding content or progression unless you pay for it (with RL cash or in game currency)

P2P means withholding the game unless you pay for it, but providing content and progression for free.

CCP does the latter, and in a much purer form than most MMOs since even expansions are included in the price.


I added a little above in parentheses because it is the distinction that I was using to parallel with EvE, the utilization of two currencies. CCP created the second currency in the hopes that it would drive up revenue. The fact that they did not use the in game mechanics to provide the content proves that CCP's want is more for new revenue sources not more 'free' content at the same old price.
Dex Thunakar
Evil Genius Organisation
#103 - 2014-03-27 14:51:51 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Dear CCP,

When PLEX hits 750m per, I'm done. You may as well just remove it from the game and make subscription the only model.

Nothing can be accomplished in-game on a casual schedule to PLEX anymore. Incursions, ratting, mining, missions. Feels like it is becoming a full-time job just to break even without really progressing.

If 750 happens I will skill out my remaining time and will not return until PLEX has returned to normalcy... reasonable levels.


You do realize the market is run by the players, right?
Victor Andall
#104 - 2014-03-27 14:52:43 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nothing the NeX or AUR does requires NeX or AUR to do so — it could all be done far better through pre-existing means, and would actually provide added sandbox content to the game that way.


Sure Incarna got halted mid sentence practically, but we have it, and people do like avatar items, regardless of what happens to incarna. But this part i quoted is what I don't understand. Are you saying the nex/aur items should be supplied in game without additional revenue for CCP? IMO, assuming those items do exist as MT items (most people seem find with this), then AUR does exactly what its supposed to (minus being non-transferable, that's weird).


Aurum is non transferrable, but Aurum tokens are tradable as well. I think it has the exact amount of flexibility it should.

Which is a lot more than CCP was obligated to offer.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#105 - 2014-03-27 14:56:35 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Sure Incarna got halted mid sentence practically, but we have it, and people do like avatar items, regardless of what happens to incarna. But this part i quoted is what I don't understand. Are you saying the nex/aur items should be supplied in game without additional revenue for CCP? IMO, assuming those items do exist as MT items (most people seem find with this), then AUR does exactly what its supposed to (minus being non-transferable, that's weird).

I'm saying that neither AUR nor the NeX is really needed to provide that functionality, and I highly doubt that, on their own, they generate any appreciable income. It's all done through PLEX, and the content itself should be… well… content: blueprints and components and all that player-oriented stuff that they're planing to try with the ship skins.

Slade Trillgon wrote:
I added a little above in parentheses because it is the distinction that I was using to parallel with EvE, the utilization of two currencies. CCP created the second currency in the hopes that it would drive up revenue. The fact that they did not use the in game mechanics to provide the content proves that CCP's want is more for new revenue sources not more 'free' content at the same old price.

Your addition isn't really correct, though. Being able to get the F2P monetisation stuff with in-game currency defeats the purpose of the monetisation. The whole point is that it brings in real-life cash — that's the business model. What you're demonstrating is more a case of how they tried to maintain the market-centric design of EVE while at the same time introducing MT goods. That addition doesn't really change the business mode.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2014-03-27 15:04:46 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Its half speculation, half ship painting, and half that 10% discount they ran.
You win at math!


1/2+1/4+1/8 = 3/4
Dyscordia
Super Elite Friendship Club
#107 - 2014-03-27 15:07:46 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Dear CCP,

When PLEX hits 750m per, I'm done. You may as well just remove it from the game and make subscription the only model.

Nothing can be accomplished in-game on a casual schedule to PLEX anymore. Incursions, ratting, mining, missions. Feels like it is becoming a full-time job just to break even without really progressing.

If 750 happens I will skill out my remaining time and will not return until PLEX has returned to normalcy... reasonable levels.



I don't understand the point of this thread, other than 750 mil is your arbitrary hard cap of what you're willing to pay for one when obviously others are willing to pay more. PLEX working as intended. Market working as intended.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that PLEXing your account was never really a casual activity - and that your arbitrary definition of casual gaming and someone else's probably differ. It's unfortunate that your arbitrary balance of grinding, gaming, RL money and isk is out of balance. I feel for you I guess.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-03-27 15:07:49 UTC
Samwise Everquest wrote:
honestly i think plex should be worth more. 1 bil at least.

i pay my sub so i guess i have nothing to lose or gain from it but if I was in the business of selling plex i would value my 20 bucks to be about 1 bil isk.


And on the other side if you have few dollars to spare you sell a couple plexes at this price and you don't have to grind out isk in game.
Brock Nelson
#109 - 2014-03-27 15:16:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Since roughly forever, the ISK injected-to-ISK sunk ratio has been 2:1, with incursions and w-space being the biggest additions on the faucet side, and NPC sell orders (mainly skill books and blueprints) consistently being the biggest sink.


Um...wat? Wspace doesn't bring any new isk into the game. Sleepers don't have bounties.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#110 - 2014-03-27 15:26:44 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Since roughly forever, the ISK injected-to-ISK sunk ratio has been 2:1, with incursions and w-space being the biggest additions on the faucet side, and NPC sell orders (mainly skill books and blueprints) consistently being the biggest sink.

Um...wat? Wspace doesn't bring any new isk into the game. Sleepers don't have bounties.

They have blue loot, which sells to NPC buy orders, which injects new ISK into the game.
Mario Putzo
#111 - 2014-03-27 15:29:42 UTC
Eli Porter wrote:
Subscriber != Player, it can also mean alts. If you wanna look at active players you should dig up the average number of online characters on TQ (though even that won't be accurate).


The relative TQ (actives) are on that site I linked.

But Alts definitely impact this.

More accounts means more demand for plexes. More demand for plexes means higher costs.

DO YOU GET IT?
Brock Nelson
#112 - 2014-03-27 15:35:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Since roughly forever, the ISK injected-to-ISK sunk ratio has been 2:1, with incursions and w-space being the biggest additions on the faucet side, and NPC sell orders (mainly skill books and blueprints) consistently being the biggest sink.

Um...wat? Wspace doesn't bring any new isk into the game. Sleepers don't have bounties.

They have blue loot, which sells to NPC buy orders, which injects new ISK into the game.


Ah, damnit, forgot about them...

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#113 - 2014-03-27 15:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
As someone that plexes three accounts, I think this is completely fine and working as intended. In fact, it's a beautiful example of supply and demand.

As CCP releases more aurum and plex content (ship skins, multi char training) the demand for plex will only rise. As long as the number of people selling plex stays the same, the price is only going to rise. What's the worst that could happen? People quit or start paying subscriptions. Either way It won't affect CCP in any meaningful way...regardless of how much some whine about it.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#114 - 2014-03-27 15:43:37 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
They have blue loot, which sells to NPC buy orders, which injects new ISK into the game.

Ah, damnit, forgot about them...

So did I at first, until they released numbers on how much it was… at which point I was rather shocked. It's a pretty significant chunk of change as it turns out. Something like ⅔ of the buy-order injected ISK was from w-space. P
Eli Porter
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2014-03-27 16:18:40 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Eli Porter wrote:
Subscriber != Player, it can also mean alts. If you wanna look at active players you should dig up the average number of online characters on TQ (though even that won't be accurate).


The relative TQ (actives) are on that site I linked.

But Alts definitely impact this.

More accounts means more demand for plexes. More demand for plexes means higher costs.

DO YOU GET IT?




Let me explain it in simpler terms.

X has no PI resources. He gets about 600 mil a month from ratting and missions.

Y has lots of PI resources and a bunch of alts each taking advantage of them. Each character gets about 1 bil a month.

Y outnumbers player X and gets more money than him. Pilot X can no longer afford a PLEX, he's been drowned out of the market. But people like pilot Y can.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#116 - 2014-03-27 16:23:45 UTC
Eli Porter wrote:
[

Let me explain it in simpler terms.

X has no PI resources. He gets about 600 mil a month from ratting and missions.

Y has lots of PI resources and a bunch of alts each taking advantage of them. Each character gets about 1 bil a month.

Y outnumbers player X and gets more money than him. Pilot X can no longer afford a PLEX, he's been drowned out of the market. But people like pilot Y can.


So... higher demand for PLEX

X probably has more fun too

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#117 - 2014-03-27 16:30:43 UTC
Good thing you are not on serenity then. From memory Plexing an account costs 2.5B isk.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#118 - 2014-03-27 16:34:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:

I'm saying that neither AUR nor the NeX is really needed to provide that functionality, and I highly doubt that, on their own, they generate any appreciable income. It's all done through PLEX, and the content itself should be… well… content: blueprints and components and all that player-oriented stuff that they're planing to try with the ship skins.


Meh, cosmetic content is cosmetic content, be it ship skins or clothing. AUR does exactly what its supposed to, which is to provide a smaller denomination of currency than a single PLEX. The biggest issue with NeX revenue is the poor selection and that some of the items are given away through other means and are also permanent. Ship skins will probably change that, as ships blow up.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Othran
Route One
#119 - 2014-03-27 16:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Dropped an account (after moving chars) earlier in the year. May drop a second after another character reshuffle - looking like I can survive on two accounts easy enough & just leave a reverse-redeemed PLEX on the third if I need more probers/cyno alts suddenly.

Frankly its probably a good thing for the game if people have less accounts, but obviously CCPs beancounters will feel differently.
Mario Putzo
#120 - 2014-03-27 16:43:40 UTC
Eli Porter wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Eli Porter wrote:
Subscriber != Player, it can also mean alts. If you wanna look at active players you should dig up the average number of online characters on TQ (though even that won't be accurate).


The relative TQ (actives) are on that site I linked.

But Alts definitely impact this.

More accounts means more demand for plexes. More demand for plexes means higher costs.

DO YOU GET IT?




Let me explain it in simpler terms.

X has no PI resources. He gets about 600 mil a month from ratting and missions.

Y has lots of PI resources and a bunch of alts each taking advantage of them. Each character gets about 1 bil a month.

Y outnumbers player X and gets more money than him. Pilot X can no longer afford a PLEX, he's been drowned out of the market. But people like pilot Y can.


So what you are trying to say is you and some guy each got a couple alts running PI and instead of plexing 1 account you are plexing 2, and Y is plexing 4 instead of 1.

Instead of 2 Plexes to run your accounts you and Y now need 6 Plexes between the two of you.

.....
.....
.....

Really.