Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm certainly not arguing that drones need an overhaul along with PvE in it's entirety :)

Drone survivability is mostly a problem on ships that use them for primary or only dps. Its not a big deal to lose a flight of lights when clearing off a few frigates when you have 800+ dps guns. The opposite situation is crippling.

The AI changes have seriously compromised them as a weapons platform in PvE. The situation was unbalanced before, but the current situation is even worse in the other direction. In PvP the situation is largely unchanged other than the improvements in damage from DDA and tracking on hulls. In PvE they have become so annoying that they and the ships that depend on them are painful to use.

Agree with Batelle here, I wouldn't dream of using t1's now. I haven't noticed losing drones particularly more yet either although I still only run lvl III missions...t2's aer fine int 3/10 and 4/10 DEDs' though

batelle, maybe uve just become too accustomed to using T2. true T2 ammo works differently, but then faction ammo? again, not often used in missions. hey, im trying it, see how it works out.

and drone boats are the least likely to lose drones. ur watching ur drones closely, they have more hit points or fly faster, or ur using sentries.

i can only remember losing one berzerker in my years between using a rattler and domi. however my astarte loses tons of small and meds because im just too busy paying attention to other things i dnt see the rats swap targets.

If you are not losing drones in missions its because you are not running missions.

There is a cycle on NPC AI where they decide that drones must die. It is impossible to both keep drones in space and keep aggro off them when that happens. This means a drone ship can just sit there, or lose drones while just sitting there. This does not matter to a ship that uses drones as a secondary weapon, but drone ships are crippled by it.

No amount of drone management can keep drones in space inside missions. Maybe its different inside complexes and anomolies, but mission AI will eventually hate drones more than anything, and once it happens you better either have all the frigates and cruisers dead, or just dock and get a new mission. Rumors of controling aggro with ewar and rr are false, it only works about half the time, and not for long.

The hp bonus for drones does not keep them alive much longer. True, a light can survive a few seconds more, but once its webbed its dead unless its inside docking range already. Only sentries can survive enemy fire from ships at ranges past about 15k, and even at that range they often die between the time damage shows on their shields and they acknowledge the return command.

Bear in mind I am not whining about the AI change, just pointing out the effect it has had on ships that use drones as their primary damage in missions. This one change got me out of a Domi and into a Kronos. I am as effective and efficient as ever in my playstyle because I was never an afk mission grinder, but I loved using drones as a weapon system and its no longer viable to do that except in fleets over three people--- for some reason when there is a flert that size the drones rarely take aggro and I have even seen the rats break off drones to attack someone else when they had it in structure. I didnt even have T2 blasters trained until the AI change.

Some sort of change is in order. Drones should not be safe in space, thats a part of the price you pay, among many, for being good at drones. They should not be vaporized on launch either, that makes them a poor choice no matter how strong they get.

I disagree as I use drones all the time in missions, though lvl IV missions may be different. I rarely lose them and correct drones management speeds things up wonderfully set 2 tech II scouts on two frigs and a tech II and guns on the 3rd and you'll strugggle to keep up with targeting the frigs coming at you in heavier missions. When the frigs and dessies are gone close in to orbit nearer and send the mediums at the cruisers. Works a treat for me in level II's, and even 3/10 DED's are a breeze in the algos

Except that ewar, including Target Painting, is ineffective at keeping aggro. Ewar controlling aggro from drones only works once in a while, unpredictably. Its essentially a myth that gets passed around because it worked that one time ago. Maybe it works in fleets with piloted ships, but it dont work solo or with just two and drones.

I cant speak to level 1-3 missions either, they generally only last a few minutes and I can do them in almost anything. In general I use a Comet on lower missions because its super fun to fly, and rarely bother to deploy drones. I only run those missions with my children though. On occasion I will use a logi cruiser and just keep up reps while they shoot. Neither gives me much feel for how mission AI works towards drones.

I want to see the drone window improved too:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=332644&find=unread

I flew extensively in a domi for almost two years, and I get back in one frequently. The first time I was in a dominix, I couldn't use large guns - so when I say I favor drones as a weapons system, please understand my meaning.

@Corraidhin Farsaidh - Drone aggression differies widely between L2 and L4 missions. In many L3 missions it is possible to use lights and mediums to good use. With watchfullness you can almost always keep your drones alive. In a L4 they instantly pop (frequently).

I've also participated in sleeper escalations. On an 8 wave in a C5 sleepers will instantly pop fighters, I'm talking delays of less than 2 seconds. For ***** and giggles, I've seen a JAMGU (jamming tengu), an arazu with damps & other misc. ewar to try to pull aggression - and I've still seen drones instantly pop.

In C2 combat sites, I tend to put lights out only when frigates get close enough to my alt's raven that they almost instantly come back, otherwise they are gone. This raven alt is also equipped with TWO target painters.

I'm going to call bullshit on Ewar as the answer.

Stated mechanics do NOT work as specified. As someone that frequently helps new corp mates get some isk by pulling them through L4 missions - let me tell you that the whole room will switch to a newbro in a destroyer.

As an experiment, I used a brawling shield vindi with a flight of ogre IIs to run in missions. For the sake of ease, I included an alt to remote rep said vindi. Even with reps, webs, and the proximity of blasters I wasn't able to keep my ogres alive (sending them to about a max of 20km away).

For PVP they may be balanced but for a large portion of PVE content they have become an unusable weapon system. Or incredibly niche... and with CCP increasing the amount of ships (armageddon) that rely primarily on drones as a DPS platform - they need to be able to apply that DPS with some regularity and dependability...

Drones are fine, im not sure what your doing wrong.
theres a skill to increase your drone hit points, train that to 5.

t2 drones do good dps, use the right drone for the situation. use the one that shoots into the resistance hole of the target rat.
use them at the appropriate range, heavies should be used for <10-15km or so brawling, lights and mediums for longer distances.

sentries? learn how to use the others before graduating up to these.

Don't afk rat, other wise use t1's and expect lots of losses.

Carry a mobile depot and spare drones and add more to your drone bay mid site.