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ISK is now taxable by the IRS

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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#61 - 2014-03-26 14:40:02 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???

Ask Dinsdale, he's never been bothered with facts ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2014-03-26 14:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???



Because they are not facts :D

There is a stack of case law that ignores clauses in EULAs and declares them invalid. What is legal in a court is what that court or a higher court has said is legal.

As far as tax goes. This issue first cameup about 20 years ago when large corporations started bartering to avoid tax ... "you deliver my steel for free and I will give you 4 tons of widgets" was stomped on as a tax avoidance.

Bit coin has become popular mainly because it lets businesses bypass banks, avoid international monetary regulations and once again avoid tax as trading in bitcoints is not declarable income, so that is now being built into legislation.

If at any stage in the future game currency like ISK can be shown to be usefully traded for real world services, even if no cash at all changes hands, you can guarantee ISK will also become taxable.

... and arguing with the governments tax lawyeers will do you know good at all :D
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#63 - 2014-03-26 16:26:18 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???



Because they are not facts :D

There is a stack of case law that ignores clauses in EULAs and declares them invalid. What is legal in a court is what that court or a higher court has said is legal.

As far as tax goes. This issue first cameup about 20 years ago when large corporations started bartering to avoid tax ... "you deliver my steel for free and I will give you 4 tons of widgets" was stomped on as a tax avoidance.

Bit coin has become popular mainly because it lets businesses bypass banks, avoid international monetary regulations and once again avoid tax as trading in bitcoints is not declarable income, so that is now being built into legislation.

If at any stage in the future game currency like ISK can be shown to be usefully traded for real world services, even if no cash at all changes hands, you can guarantee ISK will also become taxable.

... and arguing with the governments tax lawyeers will do you know good at all :D


in Canada, I know that Barter is taxable (prizes/gift is not taxable except for Quebec with its strange law)

make me think if ISK is taxable in Canada provide that you use it to gain real life profit or products or services.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#64 - 2014-03-26 17:27:38 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???



Because they are not facts :D

There is a stack of case law that ignores clauses in EULAs and declares them invalid. What is legal in a court is what that court or a higher court has said is legal.

As far as tax goes. This issue first cameup about 20 years ago when large corporations started bartering to avoid tax ... "you deliver my steel for free and I will give you 4 tons of widgets" was stomped on as a tax avoidance.

Bit coin has become popular mainly because it lets businesses bypass banks, avoid international monetary regulations and once again avoid tax as trading in bitcoints is not declarable income, so that is now being built into legislation.

If at any stage in the future game currency like ISK can be shown to be usefully traded for real world services, even if no cash at all changes hands, you can guarantee ISK will also become taxable.

... and arguing with the governments tax lawyeers will do you know good at all :D


Considering a number of players offering Real world services for isk, I'd say that test has already been passed...

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#65 - 2014-03-26 17:35:41 UTC
You can "buy" ISK through a plex which you purchase from CCP. You cannot convert ISK back into USD or any other "real world" currency, however, without being banned from the game.

The ruling was aimed at bitcoin, not gold in WOW or ISK in EVE.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#66 - 2014-03-26 20:18:23 UTC
You don't own the ISK, so it is never your property or currency.

The closest thing that it could effect is if you somehow managed to get real money by selling your eve assets. That would be considered income on it's own right, having nothing to do with when it was a virtual item owned by CCP on their server.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-03-26 20:42:27 UTC
You can only convert real money to ISK. You can't convert ISK to real money (without committing a ban worthy offense) so it's not a digital currency.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#68 - 2014-03-26 20:47:51 UTC
Veldspar is valuable!

Remove standings and insurance.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#69 - 2014-03-26 20:54:01 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???

Ask Dinsdale, he's never been bothered with facts ;)


Laugh all you like.
The smart null sec leaders in the U.S. are already claiming Eve earnings as a taxable income.
This ruling is just another nuance of it.

Anyone who says "I will give you ISK in game for real life product or service X", just bartered, and that is taxable income in a whole lot of places.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-03-26 21:09:03 UTC
the op is a dumb bitcoiner who is enraged his cunning plan to avoid taxes got busted in the most obvious way possible

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#71 - 2014-03-26 21:09:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
They are talking about bitcoins and the like. ISK isn't a convertible currency. It's a number that CCP hold on your account, which they own the rights to entirely.
How can one contrive a conspiracy theory when people like you keep bringing up the FACTS???

Ask Dinsdale, he's never been bothered with facts ;)


Laugh all you like.
The smart null sec leaders in the U.S. are already claiming Eve earnings as a taxable income.
This ruling is just another nuance of it.

Anyone who says "I will give you ISK in game for real life product or service X", just bartered, and that is taxable income in a whole lot of places.


Prove it

Oh wait, silly me to expect you to prove any of your stupid tinfoil bullshit at all.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#72 - 2014-03-26 22:44:41 UTC
This thread has been moved to Out of Pod Experience.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#73 - 2014-03-27 06:41:15 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Prove it

Oh wait, silly me to expect you to prove any of your stupid tinfoil bullshit at all.


Who needs proof when you have tinfoil?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Adunh Slavy
#74 - 2014-03-27 12:35:08 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
ISK doesn't belong to you.

Thus, it's not a currency. At no time can you actually own it.



Dollars are the property of the Federal Reserve Bank. Euros are the property of the ECB.

You are just a tax farm slave, get over it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#75 - 2014-03-27 12:50:21 UTC
Don't you dare to underestimete them. They would take half of a chicken you would give for a bag of potatoes. And half of those potatoes too. And half of the bag.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!