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Isboxer, why is it allowed?

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Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#61 - 2014-03-24 00:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
Nidal Fervor wrote:
And I bet you pay for those 40 ice mining accounts with plex you buy from the market too. What do you contribute to EVE? Probably play for free, with all those accounts, using up server resources, and driving normal players out of the game. Sounds no different than the damage done by botters, this is just as bad, in every way.

Someone doesn't understand how PLEX works.

Creating in game demand for plex, means someone else pays for your account sub for a month, and you pay them in ISK.

Plexing your account is not "playing for free" it's just a more complicated series of transactions that are non-obvious to crybabies.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-03-24 00:59:24 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
And I bet you pay for those 40 ice mining accounts with plex you buy from the market too. What do you contribute to EVE? Probably play for free, with all those accounts, using up server resources, and driving normal players out of the game. Sounds no different than the damage done by botters, this is just as bad, in every way.

Someone doesn't understand how PLEX works.

Creating in game demand for plex, means someone else pays for your account sub for a month, and you pay them in ISK.

Plexing your account is not "playing for free" it's just a more complicated financial transaction that is non-obvious to crybabies.


I understand it all perfectly. If you'd read on before posting you'd have seen that.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#63 - 2014-03-24 01:02:09 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I understand it all perfectly. If you'd read on before posting you'd have seen that.

I read on. You still didn't understand it.

No one is playing for free. Every subscription is paid for.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#64 - 2014-03-24 01:02:26 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I guess the real difference is the whole "automated" part to running software like this.

If you were to look at how a bot works. I bot is following a scripted set of commands. To keep it short, lets just say they are Undock, find rock, mine rock, redock, unload, repeat. over and over and over, all day long until sed bots owner comes home from work and stops the program.

Multi software doesnt "automate" like this. It just replicates a command the user inputs when that user presses a key or clicks the mouse over a target on the screen. It doesnt chain commands together, and it wont do anything if the player steps away from the kb.

By CCP's own definition, all they want is a human at the keyboard to operate their game. They dont want a player to start a program and leave for the day to let that program run routines from lines of script.

The real difference isn't about the number of accounts. Its the presence of a human to interact with the game while the client is logged in.

Gaming bots are bad because the user just starts a program and leaves. There is no warm body at the keyboard.


Bots are not illegal because they automate input, they are illegal because of the advantage the software gives over a normal user. The advantage in the case of botting software is the automation. Automation is always an advantage so any form of automation in software is considered illegal.

Isboxer doesn't automate in the same way as a bot as it requires user input for 1 screen and then the program sends the commands to all of the clients at once, it's not the same, but the advantage from the software is still there, and it's a big advantage. A normal player could not play 20 or 40 accounts farming isk, with isboxer, they can..



This is all i was trying to say. Thank you Big smile





They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-03-24 01:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Belt Scout wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I guess the real difference is the whole "automated" part to running software like this.

If you were to look at how a bot works. I bot is following a scripted set of commands. To keep it short, lets just say they are Undock, find rock, mine rock, redock, unload, repeat. over and over and over, all day long until sed bots owner comes home from work and stops the program.

Multi software doesnt "automate" like this. It just replicates a command the user inputs when that user presses a key or clicks the mouse over a target on the screen. It doesnt chain commands together, and it wont do anything if the player steps away from the kb.

By CCP's own definition, all they want is a human at the keyboard to operate their game. They dont want a player to start a program and leave for the day to let that program run routines from lines of script.

The real difference isn't about the number of accounts. Its the presence of a human to interact with the game while the client is logged in.

Gaming bots are bad because the user just starts a program and leaves. There is no warm body at the keyboard.


Bots are not illegal because they automate input, they are illegal because of the advantage the software gives over a normal user. The advantage in the case of botting software is the automation. Automation is always an advantage so any form of automation in software is considered illegal.

Isboxer doesn't automate in the same way as a bot as it requires user input for 1 screen and then the program sends the commands to all of the clients at once, it's not the same, but the advantage from the software is still there, and it's a big advantage. A normal player could not play 20 or 40 accounts farming isk, with isboxer, they can..



This is all i was trying to say. Thank you Big smile







Good so you agree that it is the isboxer program that is sending the commands to the other 19 clients, or in your case, the other 39 clients. Without isboxer there is no way you could mine with 40 accounts at once.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2014-03-24 01:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Nidal Fervor wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter.
Says who? You? Well what you think doesn't count, CCP makes the rules. Just another whiner...


According to the Eula, isboxer breaks the rules that CCP made

you may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Isboxer is 3rd party sofware, and it definitely facilities the acquisition of items and currency far beyond ordinary game play.

It allows players who use it to do far more than they could ever do without it. A player isboxing 10-20 or more miners is going to be able to mine for much longer without becoming stressed out from trying to to do too much. A player without isboxer probably couldn't mine with 20 accounts in the first place, if he even tried, he wouldn't last long before giving up. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a massive advantage.


No it does not. Note and understand the words. Rapid keystrokes

ISK boxing 20 account does not gain you any quicker ISK than a 20 player corp on a mining op would. Once again note the words... 3rd party software that automates or accelerates your gaining of wealth quicker then normal.

Stop being an idiot...

These kind of threads pop up once every year and it seems it is the same type of morons that fail to understand how things actually work.

Just because you are to poor in RL to afford 20 accounts or ISK Boxer does not make it wrong. CCP has already made up their mind about what is acceptable and what is not. Your ability to misread things is not going to make them change that.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-03-24 01:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter.
Says who? You? Well what you think doesn't count, CCP makes the rules. Just another whiner...


According to the Eula, isboxer breaks the rules that CCP made

you may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Isboxer is 3rd party sofware, and it definitely facilities the acquisition of items and currency far beyond ordinary game play.

It allows players who use it to do far more than they could ever do without it. A player isboxing 10-20 or more miners is going to be able to mine for much longer without becoming stressed out from trying to to do too much. A player without isboxer probably couldn't mine with 20 accounts in the first place, if he even tried, he wouldn't last long before giving up. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a massive advantage.


No it does not. Note and understand the words. Rapid keystrokes

ISK boxing 20 account does not gain you any quicker ISK then using what a 20 player corp on a mining op would.

Stop being an idiot...

These kind of threads pop up once every year and it seems it is the same type of morons that fail to understand how things actually work.


Since you can't comprehend the sentence properly I will break it down for you

You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use macros that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Is that simple enough for you to read now?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2014-03-24 01:13:21 UTC
Bots are against the rules because of unattended gameplay not because of some advantage. All kinds of things offer an advantage. Corps and/or groups of players have and advantage over a soloist, do you want to ban that too. Cry me a river.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#69 - 2014-03-24 01:15:09 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
It gives people who use it a huge advantage over those who don't use the software. The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter.

Perhaps try a different profession. Mining is on the low side of ISK generation...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2014-03-24 01:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter.
Says who? You? Well what you think doesn't count, CCP makes the rules. Just another whiner...


According to the Eula, isboxer breaks the rules that CCP made

you may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Isboxer is 3rd party sofware, and it definitely facilities the acquisition of items and currency far beyond ordinary game play.

It allows players who use it to do far more than they could ever do without it. A player isboxing 10-20 or more miners is going to be able to mine for much longer without becoming stressed out from trying to to do too much. A player without isboxer probably couldn't mine with 20 accounts in the first place, if he even tried, he wouldn't last long before giving up. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a massive advantage.


No it does not. Note and understand the words. Rapid keystrokes

ISK boxing 20 account does not gain you any quicker ISK then using what a 20 player corp on a mining op would.

Stop being an idiot...

These kind of threads pop up once every year and it seems it is the same type of morons that fail to understand how things actually work.


Since you can't comprehend the sentence properly I will break it down for you

[i]You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play[

You may not use macros that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Is that simple enough for you to read now?


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?

Like I said. Understand the difference before you alt post on the forums.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-03-24 01:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Do you even understand how thing work?


Do you? I think you're confused. Why are you talking about a 20 man mining corp?

Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?


A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#72 - 2014-03-24 01:21:20 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:


Since you can't comprehend the sentence properly I will break it down for you

You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use macros that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Is that simple enough for you to read now?

ITT we have someone hiding behind a scrub alt arguing the rules CCP made up long after CCP has clarified the issue and explicitly stated that they disagree with his point of view.

I mean come on, I can understand arguing against ISBoxing in general, but from a EULA point of view? Have you really not thought that bringing up the same tired argument is going to do exactly nothing to change CCPs mind on how they choose to enforce their own rules?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-03-24 01:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time. The minute those corp members or players start automating the process without actually clicking then you move into the realms of botting. Learn the difference...

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2014-03-24 01:24:50 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:


Since you can't comprehend the sentence properly I will break it down for you

You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use macros that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

Is that simple enough for you to read now?

ITT we have someone hiding behind a scrub alt arguing the rules CCP made up long after CCP has clarified the issue and explicitly stated that they disagree with his point of view.

I mean come on, I can understand arguing against ISBoxing in general, but from a EULA point of view? Have you really not thought that bringing up the same tired argument is going to do exactly nothing to change CCPs mind on how they choose to enforce their own rules?


I would hope it not some older player hiding behind an alt. Since that would mean even after all this time he still known nothing. So I am hoping this is just some 1 month old player being a moron.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-03-24 01:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time.


We are not comparing 1 guy to what a 20 man corp could achieve, we are comparing what a single player using 3rd party software (isboxer) can achieve vs a player who is not using 3rd party software.

1 player controlling 20 or 40 accounts simultaneously to mine is gathering isk at a greatly accelerated rate compared to what he could achieve without using 3rd party software. He couldn't hope to use anywhere near so many accounts without 3rd party softwre. In a way yes, his mining lasers do cycle faster, he is getting 40 times more cycles than a normal player with one account. Collectively he could be getting 40 or 80 cycles per minute with his 40 accounts.

This guy probably has more 2 or 3 times more barges mining in the anomaly than all of the other players put together.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#76 - 2014-03-24 01:29:17 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time.


I think this is because he is only seeing it as 'one' person making all this isk. He doesn't quite understand that each toon makes its isk at exactly the same pace as any other toon would when performing the same action.

The part of the EULA he is quoting is intended for those little cheat engines that are so prevalent in other games that make you run faster, shoot faster, whatever.

The OP needs to understand each toon is playing the game the way the game was ment to be played. (Human at keyboard, pressing buttons, and drinking, and laughing.) Then more drinking X

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2014-03-24 01:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time.


We are not comparing 1 guy to what a 20 man corp could achieve, we are comparing what a single player using 3rd party software (isboxer) can achieve vs a player who is not using 3rd party software.

1 player controlling 20 or 40 accounts simultaneously to mine is gathering isk at a greatly accelerated rate compared to what he could achieve without using 3rd party software. He couldn't hope to use anywhere near so many accounts without 3rd party softwre. In a way yes, his mining lasers do cycle faster, he could be getting 40 or 60 cycles per minute with his 40 accounts.


And that is where you are making the mistake. Your counting all the cycles together to justify why it is accelerated. In normal reality though it is not. One of the 20 accounts mine no faster then what a normal single account does. Each account makes their own ISK just like a person with 1 account would.

You are wrong. It is that simple.... do you know why I can forcefully state you are WRONG? Because CCP already stated a long time ago why ISK Boxer is allowed. It does not accelerate or automate what you are doing. You still need to input action manually to achieve something. And it does it no faster on a single account bases then another account.


So you can fall on the ground kicking and screaming like a 4 year old in the Toys section of store. You will still not be right.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2014-03-24 01:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Belt Scout wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time.


I think this is because he is only seeing it as 'one' person making all this isk. He doesn't quite understand that each toon makes its isk at exactly the same pace as any other toon would when performing the same action.

The part of the EULA he is quoting is intended for those little cheat engines that are so prevalent in other games that make you run faster, shoot faster, whatever.

The OP needs to understand each toon is playing the game the way the game was ment to be played. (Human at keyboard, pressing buttons, and drinking, and laughing.) Then more drinking X


Yeah I knew that was the case... but I wanted him to state that bullshyte 40-60 cycles thing. He was thinking person instead of multiple single accounts.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#79 - 2014-03-24 01:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:


Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?

Do you even understand how thing work?


Corps do not even come into this.

A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play


How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster?

Explain...

Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums.

And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time.


We are not comparing 1 guy to what a 20 man corp could achieve, we are comparing what a single player using 3rd party software (isboxer) can achieve vs a player who is not using 3rd party software.

1 player controlling 20 or 40 accounts simultaneously to mine is gathering isk at a greatly accelerated rate compared to what he could achieve without using 3rd party software. He couldn't hope to use anywhere near so many accounts without 3rd party softwre. In a way yes, his mining lasers do cycle faster, he could be getting 40 or 60 cycles per minute with his 40 accounts.


And that is where you are making the mistake. Your counting all the cycles together to justify why it is accelerated. IN reallity though it is not. One of the 20 accounts mine no faster then what a normal single does.

You are wrong. It is that simple.... do you know why I can forcefully state you are WRONG? Because CCP already stated a long time ago why ISK Boxer is allowed. It does not accelerate or automate what you are doing. You still need to input action manually to achieve something. And it does it no faster on a single account bases then another account.


So you can fall on the ground kicking and screaming like a 4 year old in the Toys section of store. You will still not be right.


Kicking and screaming? The only one kicking and screaming is you. You've already thrown multiple insults, like a child who doesn't know how to talk properly.

The fact that CCP currently allow isboxer is what is being debated. I clearly don't need you to tell me the current stance on isboxer. A stance that could change.
IDGAD
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-03-24 01:37:45 UTC
Can we just get a locked sticky for ISBoxer with an official dev/GM post OKing it (As they have done before) and perma lock it. Ban any new threads that pop up with the word "ISboxer" in the title, and we have our problem solved!