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Isboxer, why is it allowed?

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Author
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#321 - 2014-03-25 09:31:45 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
You missed one important point, we argue not about multiboxing as such but about automated multiboxing isboxer is foron.


Oh you mean every time I've used ISboxer I was sitting at my PC pushing buttons for no reason? I had no idea that the program was automated, I'd better go & uninstall it right away.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Salvos Rhoska
#322 - 2014-03-25 09:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote:
In what way?

Its not grey, or large and it doesnt have a tail.

In the way that it is scrunched up, has a short tuft of nappy hair, and produces great quantities of steaming ****.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
If you dont, why are you arguing with me?

You asked, daft bint.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Wtf has profit got to do with it?

Lol
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#323 - 2014-03-25 09:33:04 UTC
illirdor wrote:
Yea they can, and if you dont like it then stop playing.

no, all I'm saying is they allow bots/automation in case of isbox for profit.

illirdor wrote:

riiiight.. funny i have never seen ppl rage over botting in the similar degree that they rage over isBoxer.

you may think out some other reason why they allow obvious automated tools, profit is the most obvious for me.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#324 - 2014-03-25 09:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well it needs to be reevaluated.

It's giving multiboxers an unfair advantage they would normally not have without the program's existence.
How does this software give (say) 5 accounts an advantage over any other 5 accounts?

Quote:
Considering that their own EULA states people aren't allowed to use automation software to help them acquire resources faster than ordinary play, immediately stating afterwards that multi-boxing is allowed is a direct contradiction of their own EULA.
…except for the lack of automation and that it doesn't allow you to acquire resources faster than ordinary play.


Any other 5 accounts is incredibly vague so I'll go ahead and define a scenario for you.

CaptDildong has 5 accounts and he uses ISboxer to control 5 rohks to focus down and kill NPC battleships.

He spends 1 hour controlling 5 accounts farming.

MjrSnozberry, Yakmaster3000, tubularTed, FranksNBeanz, and MongoWantFootball are 5 dudes playing their singular accounts choosing to fly their rohks, focusing down and killing NPC battleships.

They control their 5 accounts seperately, individually for 1 hour peforming said action.

Total manhours spent by CaptDildong performing action: 1 hour

Total manhours spent by 2rude4u Crew: 5 man hours.

So essentially he's saving himself 4 hours, what would take Ordinary Game players a total of 5.


Now the automation involved in multiboxing is sending each of those 5 ships the commands automatically, instead of manually.

Automatically: The player uses isboxer to select the ship to target, the other 4 ships target that ship. The player uses isboxer while telling his ship to fire at targeted ship, telling the other 4 ships to fire at the targeted ship.

Now if he were to do this manually, individually, without the software, he'd have to: Select the ship to target. Alt tab, tell 2nd ship to target. alt tab, tell 3rd ship to target. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to target. alt tab, selected 2nd ship that already targetted, try to find the 5th ship, ok found it, tell it to target. Go to first ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 2nd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 3rd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to fire. alt tab, selected 3rd ship, this sucks, i hate this, find 5th ship and tell it to fire.

Look at all that saved time, he's just saved himself like 2 minutes worth of time because of that 3rd party software. He's getting all of the benefit of his increased potential by using 5 accounts without any of the drawback of the needing to control those 4 other ships individually.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#325 - 2014-03-25 09:35:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:

On the one hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. On the other hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. Of these two, which one is using software and how does it provide any advantage over the other?

with isbox you earn isk at an accelerated manner than playing all 5 accounts manually.
earning more isk is advantage over other players.

Tippia wrote:

Apparently not, since people use it even though it does not automate any gameplay (which is all that matters).

why people use it then, if not for automating their clients.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#326 - 2014-03-25 09:35:11 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

In the way that it is scrunched up, has a short tuft of nappy hair, and produces great quantities of steaming ****.


I see the level of converstion you wish to have, and as I am older than 5 years old, I think I shall desist conversing with you.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#327 - 2014-03-25 09:36:18 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Oh you mean every time I've used ISboxer I was sitting at my PC pushing buttons for no reason? I had no idea that the program was automated, I'd better go & uninstall it right away.

you click buttons on your main client, on the remaining 5,10,20,50 isbox is clicking for you. This is per definition form of automation.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#328 - 2014-03-25 09:36:40 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
with isbox you earn isk at an accelerated manner than playing all 5 accounts manually.
earning more isk is advantage over other players


Wait, so not only is ISboxer entirely automated according to you, but it also some how makes isk in an accelerated manner? Please share your secret to this!

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Salvos Rhoska
#329 - 2014-03-25 09:36:59 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
I see the level of converstion you wish to have, and as I am older than 5 years old, I think I shall desist conversing with you.


*comes at me for avatar being cross-eyed (lol)*
*gets mad for pointing out she looks like an elephants anus herself*

Cya!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#330 - 2014-03-25 09:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
with same effect as if they would say red is blue or some similar bullsh**.
No, with the effect that when they make a rule against automation of gameplay, they and they alone decide what qualifies. Something that requires player input to do anything does not qualify.

Quote:
no, you're talking about banned accounts in present tense, so give a proof of present time policy enforcement and account bans you are talking about all the time.
Check out the security section in the last CSM minutes.

Quote:
so how would one understand EULA at all if CCP is using common terms for something they define on their own?
By listening to their very clear explanation of what they mean. Such as them saying that if it requires player input to do anything, it is not automation. Such as them saying that multiboxing (even software- or hardware-assisted) does not qualify. It is not hard to find and it has been probably their most consistent enforcement policy for many years now.

Quote:
you click buttons on your main client, on the remaining 5,10,20,50 isbox is clicking for you. This is per definition form of automation.
Not per any definition that matters.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#331 - 2014-03-25 09:38:31 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Wait, so not only is ISboxer entirely automated according to you, but it also some how makes isk in an accelerated manner? Please share your secret to this!


I described that already, isbox saves you the time cycling through your clients and controlling them by yourself manually.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#332 - 2014-03-25 09:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
with isbox you earn isk at an accelerated manner than playing all 5 accounts manually.
No, you don't. You earn the same amount, or even slightly less since you can't adjust for the individual peculiarities of each of those accounts. You see, all you're saying is that juggling lots of accounts on the same computer is less efficient; you're not actually getting to the point where it becomes more efficient through the use of software — the best you can ever hope for is parity, and the very nature of multiboxing prevents even that.

Quote:
why people use it then, if not for automating their clients.
Convenience and not having to build complicated hardware solutions.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#333 - 2014-03-25 09:39:28 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Oh you mean every time I've used ISboxer I was sitting at my PC pushing buttons for no reason? I had no idea that the program was automated, I'd better go & uninstall it right away.

you click buttons on your main client, on the remaining 5,10,20,50 isbox is clicking for you. This is per definition form of automation.


Except it's not clicking for me, it's removing control of 'only window on top'. Please, answer my other questions as these are really important. I must know how these things are done to get value for money.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#334 - 2014-03-25 09:40:58 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Wait, so not only is ISboxer entirely automated according to you, but it also some how makes isk in an accelerated manner? Please share your secret to this!


I described that already, isbox saves you the time cycling through your clients and controlling them by yourself manually.


It saves about 3 seconds, but you haven't answered the question: How does ISboxer acquire resources at an accelerated rate?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#335 - 2014-03-25 09:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Whim Aqayn
Why are you even arguing with Tippia? She's like this forums flagship troll.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#336 - 2014-03-25 09:42:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No, with the effect that when they make a rule against automation of gameplay, they and they alone decide what qualifies. Something that requires player input to do anything does not qualify.

they use english language and well defined terms in their EULA so someone would be able to understand it.
They cant redefine meaning of well known terms in our world, otherwise their EULA wasnt worth a crap.
What they can do is not enforcing their EULA policies even despite obvious violations, its their thing and thats what they are doing.

Tippia wrote:

Check out the security section in the last CSM minutes.

link? And well of course they would say they ban this many, what else would they say otherwise? We dont care about bots? lol.
Obvious fact is that isboxer are running around uncontested by CCP.

Tippia wrote:

By listening to their very clear explanation of what they mean.

this is what I mean with excuses. They feed you excuses why they dont enforce a particular policy in a particular case, in reality its because of money.


Tippia wrote:
Not per any definition that matters.

per common definition of english language, EULA is written with.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#337 - 2014-03-25 09:43:34 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
A well written post.


I see where you are coming from, but I dont think you are saving very much either way.

2 points I would make are;

1) That hour of missioning has generated the same income for the multiboxer as it has for the fleet when totalled. As we arent considering that five missions could have been done by the five people, then the supposed man-hours make no difference as the 4 non-human piloted ships could also be doing 4 different things (and 1 Master).

2) The ISBoxer cannot respond as easily to changes in environment eg Ninja looters, gankers WTS showing up etc. except to flee. The Human Fleet can respond and attempt to defeat or adapt to the change.

Just adding that.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#338 - 2014-03-25 09:44:17 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Now if he were to do this manually, individually, without the software, he'd have to: Select the ship to target. Alt tab, tell 2nd ship to target. alt tab, tell 3rd ship to target. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to target. alt tab, selected 2nd ship that already targetted, try to find the 5th ship, ok found it, tell it to target. Go to first ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 2nd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 3rd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to fire. alt tab, selected 3rd ship, this sucks, i hate this, find 5th ship and tell it to fire.


Or he could arrange the clients in to smaller windows & turn on a couple of options in windows that prevents butan press on only the top or last clicked window.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#339 - 2014-03-25 09:45:24 UTC
It also allows you to defend your resources at an accelerated rate.

If you were to undock twenty ships on twenty accounts and tell them to dock without isboxer or other 3rd party cheating software that automates 19 clicks from one manual input, then you'd have to alt tab to each one, selecting the station and telling it to dock.

Telling 20 different ships to do that would take like 3, 4 minutes which can make a world of difference in a situation where someone is trying to gank you.

With this automation software, you can tell 20 different ships to dock in 5 seconds.

He takes 20 ships out, risks it for the potential reward twenty ships can offer, yet he doesn't have to suffer the drawback of his being an individual trying to manually control all 20 accounts thanks to the advantage offered by the 3rd party software.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#340 - 2014-03-25 09:46:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No, you don't. You earn the same amount, or even slightly less since you can't adjust for the individual peculiarities of each of those accounts. You see, all you're saying is that juggling lots of accounts on the same computer is less efficient; you're not actually getting to the point where it becomes more efficient through the use of software — the best you can ever hope for is parity, and the very nature of multiboxing prevents even that.

you do.
isbox allows you what you wouldnt be able to handle otherwise, by automation.
It saves you majority of time running a fleet of clients for certain tasks its use is viable for.

Tippia wrote:
Convenience and not having to build complicated hardware solutions.

no, efficiency and even doability.
There is just 1 guy out there who realized mechanical automation, from me, feel free to build this **** but it shouldnt be able per 3rd party tools.