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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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An old lost exodus feature.. comet mining

First post
Author
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-06 11:19:21 UTC
I really do like the idea of using webs to slow it down to manageable speeds. I think they could so something like that to reduce its inertia, and repeated webbing slows the entire thing down to a crawl. It'd be a good minigame for an inty (or even a venture) to grab the thing with webs to bring it down to slow enough for the barges to start working on it. I also agree with the earlier post about them being rather large, but to a certain degree. They should only be as large as IRL comets, which can still get pretty damn big. I think instead of normal ore since comet composition usually does not include many big rocky bits, it would include a combo of mostly ice products, some decent moon goo at the core, and a a mix of gas and fullerenes. All in all, very valuable, just difficult to secure.
Something like a particulate cloud that increases damage in relation to mwd speed might be interesting to try and pull off. It would make combat someone interesting, especially if it did something hilarious like apply to drones too. This would go in with the terrain thread that keeps coming up about making certain areas of the game have different combat landscapes and attributes. Would find it pretty funny if a guy in a crow got his ass shredded by micrometeorites from going too fast. Would have to include a visible cloud or something. So much potential with this...
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#22 - 2014-04-06 11:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
You have to use Combat Probes to find them, and they should have super high sensor strenght so they should be hard to find, the lower the system the lower the sensor strenght, the bigger the Meteor and the slower (longer mining sessions) it should have.

Looking at the informations it reveals (like lifetime in in WH infos) how long the Meteor will be "here" befor moving to the next pocket, like "The Meteor is about to leave Sensor Range" or "Meteor just reached sektor and will be not moving out in near time"... hope you get it. ^^

Edit: Also Comets should be so huge you should have to fly around it go get to different "veins" to mine there (not a single huge look on).

In short i absolutly +1 that!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2014-04-06 11:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Well, don't get overboard. Comets are not planets or planetesimals and the size of most comets varies between several hundred to a couple kilometers. We already have huge, 16 km Veldspar roids in belts, think of that as a regular size for them.

I am also not sure about the "scanning down with combat probes", since you would scan down the comet grid and the ships in there in one go, which is in my opinion a huge reduction in effort for PVP. PVP doesn't need to be even easier than it already is.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#24 - 2014-04-06 11:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I am also not sure about the "scanning down with combat probes", since you would scan down the comet grid and the ships in there in one go, which is in my opinion a huge reduction in effort for PVP. PVP doesn't need to be even easier than it already is.


Ha, i thought it would increase PvP, edit: i am more into non Highsec atm. Smile
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#25 - 2014-04-06 11:53:35 UTC
Increasing is one thing, but making PVP ridiculously easy and spoil all those brats out there is not desirable. Roll Scanning down hidden belts with Core Probes and then maneuver in there in your cloaky worked before Odyssey well enough and was challenging for the PVPers. In my opinion it's time that these challenges come back to PVP.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#26 - 2014-04-06 12:02:45 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Increasing is one thing, but making PVP ridiculously easy and spoil all those brats out there is not desirable. Roll Scanning down hidden belts with Core Probes and then maneuver in there in your cloaky worked before Odyssey well enough and was challenging for the PVPers. In my opinion it's time that these challenges come back to PVP.


Your right but i want that miners have to work hard on it too. The reward should be realy good of course. Blink
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-04-06 15:17:12 UTC
It doesn't make any logical sense that these comets be hard to find. When they are in the outer solar system, of course they are virtually invisible. What makes them detectable is moving towards the sun and developing a tail. These tails can be hundreds of millions of kilometres long - up to 3.8 AU!

Having an easily found object that will attract several miners will make PvP more likely yes (I see this as a good thing) but it will also create content - and I don't mean "hahahaha I blew up your retriever!!" "content" either. Right now miners rarely bother with a defensive fleet, in part because gankers only rarely show up and as a result it's boring as heck to be in those fleet. With an incursion like event for mining, gankers are almost guaranteed , a defence fleet makes a ton of sense, and fun stuff will follow. I think that's a good thing no?

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#28 - 2014-04-06 17:52:50 UTC
They should be easy to scan down, but i think they should still need to be scanned. Explorers should have more things to look for, and then utilize it. It will cause pvp because the comet would have value, high value means people will take the risk. You would need a special ship to mine it without taking damage. A new ship that gets a bonus to comet mining would attract industrialist to the cause too. It would be a boost to many professions, and another spot to set traps and gank, as well as would help utilize things like the d-scan mask, and the decoy unit.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-04-11 17:00:39 UTC
+1. Would love to see either this or ring mining implemented. It will do a lot to make mining more interesting.

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vynok
Sub Par.
#30 - 2014-04-11 19:38:29 UTC
great Idea, They should have put more work into it
PrettyMuch Always Right
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-04-12 14:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: PrettyMuch Always Right
It's a cool idea, but how would it not be boring? Consider a miner who wants to sit down for 2 hours every other day and do this.

It seems after a month, this wouldn't be particularly exciting. In fact the ability to AFK and do other things due to the simplicity of regular mining would probably become the preference.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea; it just needs to be actually exciting to do more or less indefinitely. The rest of the PVE is not like this. I'm not really sure there's a reasonable way to make ISK-making activities fun in the long run. As such I'm usually a proponent of very simple, easy, automated ways of ISK making. This seems like it would not be as simple as regular PVE while not being particularly exciting either.

It's not a +1 or a -1. I'm more pointing out how adding such various features won't really fix the stale state of mining.
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-04-13 01:02:13 UTC
don't know if anyone already mentioned this, as im still half asleep, but since the comet is moving, you would have to keep your engine running. In addition to that, since the comet would be tumbling as it moves, and people are removing materials, its going to shift its trajectory fairly frequently, but at random intervals. Hopefully this would decrease afk mining of the comet and make it harder to bot mine it.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#33 - 2014-04-13 01:18:52 UTC
This NEEDS to happen- a more active activity for miners would be a great addition, and this would be a perfect way to do just that Big smile
+1
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
#34 - 2014-04-21 08:15:35 UTC
bump
&
+1
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#35 - 2014-04-21 08:31:35 UTC
Let me just paste in a very old post of mine.
Comet Mining

The main problem with comets is that they are moving. Very fast. They have speeds ranging from 350 m/s when they're the farthest from the sun (and practically invisible) to 415,000 m/s when they are catapulting around the sun it the lowest distance, averaging at 45,000 m/s . No ship is flying fast enough to keep up with a comet, let alone a mining barge. In order to stay close enough to a comet for mining endeavours new technology is needed: The Tug Link and the Anchor Probe.

Once the location of a comet is pinpointed with Spectrographic Probes the prospector can attempt to send Anchor Probes out to the comet. The chance of successfully fixing the Anchor Probe to the comet depends on the quality of the probe, the skills of the operator and the distance to the comet. Once the anchor is fixed a ship fitted with a Tug Link can warp to the comet's location. Once in close proximity the Tug Link connects with the Anchor Probe, pulling the ship out of warp and connect it with the comet via a strong tractor beam. The ship is then dragged behind the comet close enough to start mining.

In game terms this means: First normal probing of the comet like any other location. The greater the accuracy the better as the distance from the location is calculated into the chance of fixing the Anchor Probe. Then you warp to the pinpointed location and launch a Anchor Probe. It will take a few minutes for the probe to reach the comet and fix itself onto it. When successful one then has a bookmark for the comet where one can warp to. Attempting to warp to the comet without a active Tug Link will abort the warp and give a message like 'You cannot warp to this location without a active Tug Link.'. The warp will bring you into close proximity of the comet, like 5km varied by the normal warp deviation. The comet location is a deadspace area, so the warp-in point will be fixed.


The comet has three parts that can be mined: The ice shell, the rock core and the dust tail.

Comet Ice is very rich in all kinds of isotopes and heavy water due to the strong exposure to the solar winds but is lacking in liquid ozone and strontium clathrates as those materials are too unstable to endure the radiation. It can be mined with a standard Ice Harvesters

Comet Cores have to be mined with a Deep Core mining laser. There are four possible kinds of cores, frozen core, crystalline core, rocky core and metallic core.
Frozen cores have higher amounts of strontium clathrates along other ice products.
Crystalline cores yield a variety of minerals, Rocky Cores yield non-metallic raw moon materials. Metallic cores can be refined into metallic raw moon materials.
The kinds of cores could be broken down further into varieties that yield some material more and some less and some not at all to bring in more diversity an element of luck and to make it more easy to balance the availability of the extracted materials, minerals and ice products.

Comet Tails are mined with Gas Cloud Harvesters. While the yield on the comet dust is rather low it can, in opposite to the other parts of the comet, be mined as long as the comet is available. Among atmospheric gases, traces of contents of both the ice shell and the solid core can be extracted from comet dust. The more rare minerals and materials should not be available in comet dust though as this would make farming a comet for them too easy and would disturb the market for those items.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#36 - 2014-04-21 08:32:24 UTC
The environment behind a comet is a hazardous one. Energized particles and larger junks falling off of the comet are a constant threat to anyone tugging along. This should be reflected by regular damage to any ship or other objects, like jetcans, in the comet area, mostly consisting of kinetic, some thermal and a little explosive damage. In addition every time a mining cycle is finished more parts of the comet drop off, causing similar damage as the environmental hazards. The more a comet is mined and the longer it has been around the more unstable it will become. Over time the environmental damage will increase until after a certain time the comet breaks apart and ceases to exist as a celestial event. At that time the Anchor Probe will fail and the ship/s in the area will drop into normal space. Effectively the deadspace location gets deleted like a mission site when the mission is cashed in.


There are some issues with having a comet move through the system while it is around. One would be that whenever the comet is moved to another location all bookmarks for it become obsolete. Either a automatic updating has to be coded in or the comet's location has to be probed out again and a new Anchor Probe has to be attached. If the comet is moved only once a day, the latter option would be viable but if the comet moves every hour or even in real time only the first choice would be the only viable one. Also with moving out of downtime the players currently inside the comet area have to be effectively moved which might require new code to be created.

Personally I would go for moving the comet only during downtime and require it to be probed down again at the new location. If it was possible to update the bookmarks during downtime one could give a Anchor Probe a certain chance to survive and allow a luck comet miner to return to the comet without delay. The comet would fly a predetermined parable course towards the sun and disappear after a certain time, like a week or when it is mined out.

The proximity of a comet is deadspace due to the disturbances in warp that a comet causes. The high energy particles of the tail hide ships inside from probing almost completely. This is to prevent people from warping to the area without the proper equipment. If you want to shoot a comet miner you will have to attach your own Anchor Probe to the comet and fix your combat ship to it.

There is no manoeuvring in the comet area. To be able to stay close to the comet the ship is basically anchored in relation to the comet to stay at a zero relative velocity. The warp deviation will prevent people sitting on top of each other but they will be in close proximity. So if a pirate probes out a comet, attaches a Anchor Probe and warps to the comet, he will be right on top of the unlucky miner.

I think comet mining in this or a similar way would offer a new exciting sub-profession if the effort/rewards, requirements/rewards and risk/rewards relations are properly balanced.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#37 - 2014-04-21 08:35:49 UTC
this is just one of many features CCP promised and never implemented.

the best example for this, though, is Incarna.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#38 - 2014-04-21 15:45:33 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
this is just one of many features CCP promised and never implemented.

the best example for this, though, is Incarna.



I know, and in all my years of eve this is the feature I want most. It make me REALLY want Shiva.. or Kali.. (note I always mix up the damn code names) So I try to remind them if I get the chance to ask a question that it should be a thing. Anyway. Great ideas guys and gals who added to my post. Keep it up. Maybe ccp will add it.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#39 - 2014-04-21 18:14:16 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I really do like the idea of using webs to slow it down to manageable speeds. I think they could so something like that to reduce its inertia, and repeated webbing slows the entire thing down to a crawl. It'd be a good minigame for an inty (or even a venture) to grab the thing with webs to bring it down to slow enough for the barges to start working on it. I also agree with the earlier post about them being rather large, but to a certain degree. They should only be as large as IRL comets, which can still get pretty damn big. I think instead of normal ore since comet composition usually does not include many big rocky bits, it would include a combo of mostly ice products, some decent moon goo at the core, and a a mix of gas and fullerenes. All in all, very valuable, just difficult to secure.
Something like a particulate cloud that increases damage in relation to mwd speed might be interesting to try and pull off. It would make combat someone interesting, especially if it did something hilarious like apply to drones too. This would go in with the terrain thread that keeps coming up about making certain areas of the game have different combat landscapes and attributes. Would find it pretty funny if a guy in a crow got his ass shredded by micrometeorites from going too fast. Would have to include a visible cloud or something. So much potential with this...


a valuable addition - would bring ventures out into the field - stick a MWD on a venture, 2 gas harvesters, set it on the comet, and let the barges catch up in their own time.

I have one question - how do you mine the moongoo - do we need a new harvesting system or will strips work?

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
#40 - 2014-04-22 06:49:15 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Let me just paste in a very old post of mine.
Comet Mining

Quite like some of these ideas, however it does raise a few questions in my mind (some, only CCP can answer). Hopefully, I didn't miss anything that your post already answered.


    Anchor probes
  1. You mention for individuals and gankers, but what about fleets? Can you drop a probe for a fleet or corp, or does each fleet member do this, or is this intended for solo players?

  2. Tug Links
  3. I take it each ship would have to have their own tug, otherwise they'd never be able to stay in proximity of the comet (meaning no freighters picking up stuff)? Or should there be an upgrade to the Orca/Rorqual to somehow link a whole fleet? (which would relieve a few fitting issues for some barges.)

  4. Can a ship that leaves the site (e.g. a hauler) easily get back to the fleet without having to scan anything down again?

  5. Where would this module go - mids or lows? If there's going to be dangerous chunks falling off, I want a decent tank. Or is it a rig or something?

  6. If this comet is moving very rapidly, and I deactivate the tug, I would expect to be dropped out of this comet "deadspace", effectively leaving my fleet behind, which would be quite different to a "deadspace location" being despawned. For example, if a ganker shows up, and the miner dropped his tug to escape, those ships should be in different parts of the system, not on the same grid with just the comet effects removed. Even if the ganker dropped the tug a couple of server ticks later, that's still a separation of 90KM (if the comet is travelling at 45KM/sec).

  7. This also applies to containers - they couldn't just sit there without a tug pulling them along...

  8. How would I warp off? Would I have to break the link first, or should the navigation systems quietly handle that?

  9. (sidenote: imagine just dropping the link and flying off into space at 45KM/sec!)P

    Mechanics
  10. either re-using the deadspace concept (at least, my interpretation of your idea) or actually having a comet flying around the solar system would probably require new or altered game mechanics, which would probably lower its priority in the development queue, but I hope they take a good look at it, with a big picture view of the future, such as asteroids that actually move, or orbiting space stations or moons (even though that would create problems with bookmarks).

  11. I'm wary of anything being designed around down-time - we should assume that at some point, they'll reduce it to every 2-3 days, or even eliminate it "completely" (i.e. weeks at a time), even though that's a long way off.

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