Intergalactic Summit

Of course history is important. But that wasn’t what you were asking. You asked me to put aside the past. I asked you to do the same. The difference is we are here now. Now matters more.

I think for now, since our peoples harbor so much distrust and anger over so many wrongs, the only solution is the current status quo. De-militarized dual administration of the planet.

My original post about taking over total administration through business competition in the future was far in the future. I didn't mean next year, or even within the decade. Hopefully a future where the Federation won't see it as some horrible encroachment and/or duplicity of the untrustworthy and most-hated ancient enemy of bad guys. Hopefully a future where the Federation sees it as the natural way of things, where the Caldari people once again repopulate and are given control of the planet. Hopefully a future where our Chief Executive Panel, the Patriots and the Practicals alike, can show you we can be trusted enough to not horribly abuse the trust that would be placed in us by allowing a major foothold in a shared core system.

Just because the State and Federation are enemies now does not mean it always must be so. Some day, we may be allies fighting side by side against a much larger and much more dangerous mutual foe. Like Sansha's Nation... the new Sansha's Nation. The one that can strike at us at any point at any time at will.

Keep in mind that a hostile takeover of Material Acquisitions is only one way to gain complete control. It's also the most belligerent way short of military intervention. It's also a way that's likely to result in your Senate stepping in to make the whole plan worthless. I suspect one day we'll administrate the whole planet... and I suspect when that day arrives, the Federation will allow it because we did so in a method that you can (and should) respect.

How very generous of you to consider them equals Pieter…

“which would include offering them employment and citizenship within the State. I've no idea why anyone would expect me to view that offer as anything other than the best treatment that could be offered.”

Well then you should jump at the opportunity to make Caldari Prime a Federation member planet wouldn't you.

Then all the Caldari could be Federal citizens. Even you!

Then there wouldn't be an issue regarding Caldari now would there.

I mean why wouldn't you jump at such a wonderful opportunity?


Gregory. Firstly thank you for listening to your peers and changing the tone of your conversation.

It takes courage to be civil, when confronted with arrogant presumption.

I would remind you we warned about involving yourself in this debate.

I hope now you see what we face and why compromise in and of itself is dangerous.

Our counterparts, honorable intentions aside, seem to be absolutely stumped how we can resist their perfect if self deluded logic.

Let me paraphrase their position.

“We want what we want, we will get what we want, we won’t stop until we get what we want and as long as you give us what we want we will negotiate".

Well... No.

Ms. Oniseki I think was correct, Its not the time.

For my part this conversation is over.

A generation or two for traitors like Saya to die out.

You say its not an issue, but it is. Forgive me if what you (meaning the State in general) “say” means very little. "You" do't get to determine what the issues are alone.


Really! Are you sure this is the standard you want to use?


Let remember you asked me a question, I answered it. If you don’t like the answer whose fault is that. We have given you the answer, dual sovereignty. But you don’t want to hear that. You ask for something “we” can live with, well surprise, we need to be able to live with it too.


No you simple want your way. You're not interested in anything that doesn't give you what you want. The current situation on... Luminaire VII is the solution. Considering your attitude I suggest you learn to live with it.

I am sure it was and I even think you meant it as a very profound compliment. I just wished you could understand why (to us/me) it wasn't.

Could you do what your asking us to do? You would us living under State law in a place that is by right our home.

I was warned you were a sly one. I think we both know that “flag” is the guarantor of our freedoms. Its not the flag you want… its us living under your laws and at your whim. That flag isn’t stopping you from being Caldari or being on Caldari Prime. So lets not pretend otherwise.

And this is why Katrina's an admiral, and I work terra ops.

You know... I like this. Right here. Detente. Everything I can't get across, packaged and understood by both sides. This is everything I'm no good at relaying to anyone I don't know already. I can't add to this, so I'm not going to try. Consider me in agreement with the admiral's statement in its entirety, and I'll happily take my leave from this debate on that note.

If it puts your mind at rest, I do. I'm just not sure how I treat those people with any more respect than this, whilst simultaneously not granting them special favours.

That's why I'm a combat pilot, probably. At the very least I don't perceive any huge injustice that needs to be corrected in a hurry - I'm happy to let those in authority play it out and see where it goes.

What principle exactly? Because what you seem to be saying is that you think that any culture has the right to evict a whole ethnic group, claim their ancestral land, build all over it and then call it their own, as if this were an axiom to which no reasonable person could dissent. Do you think the Amarr had the right to do exactly that to the Minmatar? Do you think that their distaste for the Tribal culture of the Matari would justify them in continuing to claim every world in the Republic as their property? If you don't, you are going to have to produce a VERY compelling argument as to why that isn't a hapless double-standard.

If naked theft is among your "things worth defending at any price" then I would suggest that your list is in urgent need of revision.

You have the right to call Home, home. What you do not have is the right to claim Home in the name of the Federation, because the Federation has no legitimate claim over that world: It. Was. Forcibly. Stolen. By a government that was subsequently tried and found guilty of crimes against humanity by the Federation's own courts.



There are in fact a very great many ethnic Caldari living in the Federation, voting in her elections, enjoying Federal citizenship and all the rest of it. Equally, there are a number of successful megacorporate executives who are Intaki, Gallentean, Amarrian... I even know of a Brutor chief engineer at a Minedrill facility in Lonetrek. Being ethnically Caldari does not require one to be culturally Caldari, nor does being culturally Caldari require one to be ethnically Caldari.

Caldari Prime may be your home personally, but culturally, historically and by any reasonable interpretation it is OUR home, that is to say, the shared home of all Caldari, and I don't just mean Deteis and Civire. And there are a lot more Caldari who call it Home than there are ethnic Gallenteans. So not only do the principles of fairness and reciprocity come into it, but so too does the principle of the greatest common good. You are asking me to weigh your personal disdain for corporate meritocracy against the collective disdain held by billions of people for theft.

You do, I repeat, seem to be saying that your distaste for our way of life is so powerful that you'd rather perpetuate a crime against justice which serves as the largest obstacle to a mutually beneficial relationship between our peoples. That's not my uncharitable interpretation, that is what you are saying. And I consider it to be a wholly unethical, parochial and absurd sentiment.



If I repeat that and change two words, it becomes "It's not the flag you want… it's us living under your laws and at your whim. That flag wouldn’t stop you from being Gallente or living on Caldari Prime."

That contention works equally both ways - whatever happens, ONE group or another is going to have to live by somebody else's laws, and you are insisting that we must live under yours. If you can validly reject that, so can I. If I cannot validly reject that, neither can you. Therefore, this argument is self-nullifying and of no use in reaching an accord.

Which only leaves us with the ethical and practical arguments to consider. Ethically, as I have said, we consider Caldari Prime to be stolen property and insist that justice demands its return. No more, no less. Some voices might call for some compensation or settlement, but I think most of us would be happy just to have Home back and finally consign these last two centuries to history lessons where they belong.

Practically, once that has happened then the tension between our nations will rapidly boil off and while it might take decades or centuries before any real trust or affection formed between our peoples, peace and trade would begin to increase and pay their respective dividends very swiftly indeed.

I'm going to repeat the challenge: Can you look me in the eye and honestly tell me that you think corporate meritocracy is so terrible that justice and peace are less valuable than that the minority part of a planet's population should never face the choice between living under it or emigrating?