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News: Operation Highlander Monument Unveiled on Caldari Prime
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Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#101 - 2014-03-27 04:38:17 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Is it then you position that any negotiation regarding Caldari Prime must end with it resting solely in State sovereignty?


We were bombed off our home planet. millions died, some cut down as they fled, others vaporised by orbit-to-ground citybreaker strikes. Many more died to starvation and disease and logistical failures as they tried to scratch a living in the wilderness.

The government that did this was subsequently arrested, tried and found guilty of crimes against humanity. But there still followed two centuries of occupation.

Picture if you will a similar scenario, where a gang of thugs were to run you out of your house, murdering your sibling in the process, and then proceeded to squat there, turning your house over to their own ends. Even when arrested, tried for their crimes and imprisoned, the court inexplicably grants them that the house - your stolen property - now belongs to them and gives them the right to leave it to their children.

And so it goes. Finally, you take matters into your own hands and break in the door with a shotgun laying claim to the house. you deploy security drones and sit there, angrily defending the home you already lost once. Eventually the thugs come back. They destroy the drone, which crashes into your grandfather's carefully-tended garden and burns it. You just about manage to hold out in the upstairs rooms before the police arrive and force a ceasefire.

A compromise is now arranged where you get to keep the upstairs rooms and use the front door, and the thugs who originally evicted you and killed your sibling get to live in the downstairs rooms, with no weaponry allowed in the house save that owned by the team of private security brought in to keep things quiet. (this house is getting quiet).

Now can you honestly tell me that anything about that scenario sounds remotely fair and just? And in that situation, would you be satisfied with 54%? Or would you plan to secure the rest of the house (which, let's remember, is rightfully yours) over time and maybe finally get on with cleaning up the mess, restoring the garden and building a small memorial to your dead family?

To be honest I don't think fair or just is what your concerned with.

But it is a very nice story, one we are all familiar with and it happened a very very long time ago.

What I am interested in is now.

So are you saying that only the rights of Caldari should be recognized on Caldari Prime?

What exactly do you plan to do with all those inconvenient Gallente?

It's about perspective, mister Syagrius. Not a direct answer, I don't think. But I don't see him calling for heads on a pike, or saying they should be ignored, marginalized, or even relocated. So, not to speak for Hakatain-haan, but I would think the answer to your question would be "No. But I daresay you've missed the point."

That "long time ago" IS now. It's the root cause and basis.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#102 - 2014-03-27 04:48:11 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

I must however admit that I find the tenor of your latest comments disturbing.

Is it then you position that any negotiation regarding Caldari Prime must end with it resting solely in State sovereignty?

Must thus remain a zero sum game?

I would remind you that corporations play an entirely different role in the Federation than the State.

Regardless of what corporate organization may operate within the portion of Caldari Prime retained by treaty to the Federation, it will be subject to Federal law.

Many in the Federation including myself desire an honorable peace with the State.

But it will not be a peace on your terms alone.

Our words matter and State duplicity will not be tolerated… again.


Of course it is my position that the ultimate goal is to see Caldari Prime rest solely in State Sovereignty. How could it be anything else? Did you honestly think that because I shake hands with you and your ilk that my opinions and those of my people can be simply ignored? That we would just shrug our shoulders and say "oh well!" and forget about it? You don't strike me as that dumb.

There is absolutely no duplicity here. The Caldari People have made it abundantly clear from the absolute very beginning what we want. It was the entire pretext for both wars. We have corporations and toasts named after the warning that 'we will return'.

Don't insult my intelligence, or your own, by talking of zero-sum games with this either. Political buzzwords that have absolutely no meaning to the situation at hand are not useful for this discourse. I'm serious. Zero-Sum Theory is not applicable in this situation because it is too complex and too interconnected with other factors.

I'm well aware that even in the takeover of Material Acquisitions, the Federal territories would remain under Federal law. Last I checked, Ishukone is quite adept at operating under such restrictions and still getting what we want. See Intaki for details.

You speak of peace, but peace is an illusion. We are always and will always be at war, James, until we have Caldari Prime back.

Whether it is fought with ships or shares is your choice... which are you more willing to lose?

You have a talent for the personal insult.

Being considered “dumb” by the likes of you isn't much of a burden.

All or nothing you say… zero sum indeed.

I thought you wanted a just accommodation regarding Caldari Prime.

I see I was wrong.

You want something very different.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#103 - 2014-03-27 04:56:54 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
It's about perspective, mister Syagrius. Not a direct answer, I don't think. But I don't see him calling for heads on a pike, or saying they should be ignored, marginalized, or even relocated. So, not to speak for Hakatain-haan, but I would think the answer to your question would be "No. But I daresay you've missed the point."

That "long time ago" IS now. It's the root cause and basis.

No is all I wanted to hear.

No is all a great many people want to hear.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#104 - 2014-03-27 05:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:
There can be no solution that ends in peace that does not guarantee the rights of Federation citizens on Luminaire VII.


We prefer to call it Caldari Prime or Home. You can dress it up like an unimportant planetoid, if you like, but it just makes you look ignorant.


Regardless. His point is clear, Mr. Tuulinen, The Federation citizens living on the planet must be guaranteed their rights, for they have just as much claim to "Home" as do Caldari.

I would say far more so than the billions of Caldari who do not, have never, and will never live there.


No. Theft is not property, you cannot squat on the planet that gave my people life for a few short centuries after stealing it at gunpoint and claim that you have more right to it than we do.

The current settlement is an excellent starting point, and I am persuaded that the long term view can be taken as far as transferring the rest of it. Negotiate through Ishukone, if you prefer their way of doing business. Secure settlements and easements and protection for the rights of your subjects if you must. Broker whatever deal you can get away with - and I'll salute your cleverness.

But don't talk to me about your rights to my Homeworld. You have none.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#105 - 2014-03-27 06:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
James Syagrius wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
It's about perspective, mister Syagrius. Not a direct answer, I don't think. But I don't see him calling for heads on a pike, or saying they should be ignored, marginalized, or even relocated. So, not to speak for Hakatain-haan, but I would think the answer to your question would be "No. But I daresay you've missed the point."

That "long time ago" IS now. It's the root cause and basis.

No is all I wanted to hear.

No is all a great many people want to hear.

Unfortunately, what a lot of people want to hear, is all they want to hear. If it really is that simple for you, then it's a breath of fresh air for me to simply say "No." I'm too used to people who won't settle for easy answers, or anything that isn't favorable to their interests alone.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#106 - 2014-03-27 06:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
James Syagrius wrote:

You have a talent for the personal insult.

Being considered “dumb” by the likes of you isn't much of a burden.

All or nothing you say… zero sum indeed.

I thought you wanted a just accommodation regarding Caldari Prime.

I see I was wrong.

You want something very different.


I am not insulting you.

Perhaps I was unclear, you are "not dumb".

You still don't know what zero-sum theory is, apparently.

I never said I wanted "accommodation", so yes, you were very wrong.

I do want something very different.

I want you to stop placing every sentence on a new line and start answering me in detail.


Relax, James. I don't see what your big fuss is about anyways. I never once suggested we would abandon the terms of the treaty. I never once suggested Federation citizens on CP would be denied the rights of their Constitution. In fact, this whole time I've been assuming even if Ishukone managed to takeover and control Material Acquisitions, that the Federal territories would remain Federal territories. That means Federal citizens living in those areas would still enjoy the same rights and protections as before.

Or is this less about the cry for "liberty", and more about planting your flag on Caldari Prime? Is your angle more akin to those who prefer to call it Luminaire VII? Do you simply not want us there at all? They say the Federation are little more than velvet-gloved imperialists. Prove me wrong.

Katrina Oniseki
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-03-27 06:33:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bryen Verrisai
Stitcher wrote:

And so it goes. Finally, you take matters into your own hands and break in the door with a shotgun laying claim to the house. you deploy security drones and sit there, angrily defending the home you already lost once. Eventually the thugs come back. They destroy the drone, which crashes into your grandfather's carefully-tended garden and burns it. You just about manage to hold out in the upstairs rooms before the police arrive and force a ceasefire.

I was with you until this point, because you left out a rather key factor: in the course of taking back your home, you also took the "thug's" children as hostages and threatened to blow up the house next door if you weren't left alone. As justified as your feelings and claims might be, you don't get to do that without consequences.

I'm happy the State and the Federation are finally working on a peaceful resolution to the Caldari Prime problem, but don't pretend that the State has any more of a moral high ground to stand upon than the Federation. Both have dirtied their hands with the blood of innocents, and never forget that it was only the actions of a rogue Caldari admiral that kept your nation from firing the first shot in what would have become a war of annihilation on an apocalyptic scale.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#108 - 2014-03-27 06:57:04 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Stitcher wrote:

And so it goes. Finally, you take matters into your own hands and break in the door with a shotgun laying claim to the house. you deploy security drones and sit there, angrily defending the home you already lost once. Eventually the thugs come back. They destroy the drone, which crashes into your grandfather's carefully-tended garden and burns it. You just about manage to hold out in the upstairs rooms before the police arrive and force a ceasefire.

I was with you until this point, because you left out a rather key factor: in the course of taking back your home, you also took the "thug's" children as hostages and threatened to blow up the house next door if you weren't left alone. As justified as your feelings and claims might be, you don't get to do that without consequences.

I'm happy the State and the Federation are finally working on a peaceful resolution to the Caldari Prime problem, but don't pretend that the State has any more of a moral high ground to stand upon than the Federation. Both have dirtied their hands with the blood of innocents, and never forget that it was only the actions of a rogue Caldari admiral that kept your nation from firing the first shot in what would have become a war of annihilation on an apocalyptic scale.

Nobody's innocent here, for sure. In that, sadly, I think we find our most common ground.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-03-27 09:32:23 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

Is it then your position that any negotiation regarding Caldari Prime must end with it resting solely in State sovereignty?

Undoubtedly.
While federal swines occupy even smallest part of our world, peace is not possible.
Gallenteans will keep dying, and we will make whatever possible to make them pay with gallentean blood as much as we can.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2014-03-27 12:12:40 UTC
Its simple, most Gallente would be willing to turn the entire planet over to the State on the grounds that the Federation citizens on the planet are treated respectfully and willingly. Essentially, the same as a foreign resident.

Sadly, when the State tried to prove us wrong, they failed horribly. Until we have a reason to believe our citizens will be treated properly, we're going to have to share the planet.

That said, if the planet was handed over to Ishukone, Im confident our comrades would be well taken care of.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#111 - 2014-03-27 12:13:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:
There can be no solution that ends in peace that does not guarantee the rights of Federation citizens on Luminaire VII.


We prefer to call it Caldari Prime or Home. You can dress it up like an unimportant planetoid, if you like, but it just makes you look ignorant.


Regardless. His point is clear, Mr. Tuulinen, The Federation citizens living on the planet must be guaranteed their rights, for they have just as much claim to "Home" as do Caldari.

I would say far more so than the billions of Caldari who do not, have never, and will never live there.


No. Theft is not property, you cannot squat on the planet that gave my people life for a few short centuries after stealing it at gunpoint and claim that you have more right to it than we do.

The current settlement is an excellent starting point, and I am persuaded that the long term view can be taken as far as transferring the rest of it. Negotiate through Ishukone, if you prefer their way of doing business. Secure settlements and easements and protection for the rights of your subjects if you must. Broker whatever deal you can get away with - and I'll salute your cleverness.

But don't talk to me about your rights to my Homeworld. You have none.



Make no mistake; I never claimed I had rights to claim on the planet. Reviewing your public Biographical information on GalNet I'm not so sure you as an individual do either.

The people on the planet however do have a right to it. Be they Caldari, Gallentean, or immigrants from elsewhere. Those who have made the planet their home, all have an equal right at this point in the planets history. Yes, this is about today, and a secure future.

That future will depend upon the planet being fairly administered and policed, so as to ensure liberty and security for all those living on the planet.

It will require the reduction and / or elimination of extremist elements on the planet, through political persuasion and if necessary by force.

It will require a plan to address grievances each side has leveled against the other.

And so I say again, this is the here and now, those living on the planet are those who have the greatest claim to it. Not you, not I, not the other billions upon billions of Caldari and Gallenteans who live elsewhere either by circumstance or because of their own choice.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#112 - 2014-03-27 12:40:43 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Its simple, most Gallente would be willing to turn the entire planet over to the State on the grounds that the Federation citizens on the planet are treated respectfully and willingly. Essentially, the same as a foreign resident.

Sadly, when the State tried to prove us wrong, they failed horribly. Until we have a reason to believe our citizens will be treated properly, we're going to have to share the planet.

That said, if the planet was handed over to Ishukone, Im confident our comrades would be well taken care of.


At this point I do not share that same confidence, and as you are well aware of many would agree with me. And that keeps us at the point in the here and now of sharing administration of the planet.

However I do think there may be hope in whatever Ishukone and The Senate may be discussing behind the scenes. Time will be the judge of that.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2014-03-27 14:09:53 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Its simple, most Gallente would be willing to turn the entire planet over to the State on the grounds that the Federation citizens on the planet are treated respectfully and willingly. Essentially, the same as a foreign resident.

Sadly, when the State tried to prove us wrong, they failed horribly. Until we have a reason to believe our citizens will be treated properly, we're going to have to share the planet.

That said, if the planet was handed over to Ishukone, Im confident our comrades would be well taken care of.


At this point I do not share that same confidence, and as you are well aware of many would agree with me. And that keeps us at the point in the here and now of sharing administration of the planet.

However I do think there may be hope in whatever Ishukone and The Senate may be discussing behind the scenes. Time will be the judge of that.


I can see why my fellow Gallenteans do not want to let go of the planet. There are certainly many valid reasons why they wouldn't. The Provist occupation of Caldari Prime is full of all the supporting evidence required.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#114 - 2014-03-27 14:46:59 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
And so I say again, this is the here and now, those living on the planet are those who have the greatest claim to it. Not you, not I, not the other billions upon billions of Caldari and Gallenteans who live elsewhere either by circumstance or because of their own choice.


First of all, no. Some planets are simply aggregations of rock and other compounds, of value only to those who possess them currently. Some places, however, have more significance than merely being a place to stand. In the same way that Athra belongs to all the faithful of the Amarr church, Caldari Prime is Home to all Caldari. in the same way that the Crystal Boulevard represents the retail aspirations of all Gallente, the Kalaakiota Peaks represent what it means to be Caldari.

I'm sorry that you find our history awkward and inconvenient to the occupiers you flooded our stolen Home with, but you don't get to take it off the table as irrelevant. If it were irrelevant we wouldn't be willing to sink so much blood and treasure into reclaiming it. As I've said to debaters from the Gallente side on this matter before - you don't have to agree, you simply have to understand how important it is to us. You simply have to understand that, because you are not going to change it.

See, what you are doing here is making your people living on the surface into the only obstacle to the planet simply being returned. In the strongest terms I am advising you that this is a mistake - people will simply draw the conclusion that all that is required is to convince the Gallente settlers to leave or to make them disappear in some way.

My vision is for a means of "de-Gallente-ing" districts of the planet in a peaceful, measured, slow and orderly way that protects those being displaced and gives them the best possible chance for prosperity and success - whether that means living as State citizens, relocating elsewhere within the Federation or some other mutually agreeable solution.

I really don't care if it takes another two hundred years to encompass. You'll find that we're a much more patient people than you think. Neither do I require some bizarre ritual humiliation of the settlers, I'm quite happy for us to part on good terms.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#115 - 2014-03-27 15:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I can see why my fellow Gallenteans do not want to let go of the planet. There are certainly many valid reasons why they wouldn't. The Provist occupation of Caldari Prime is full of all the supporting evidence required.


The Federation, for the first time since the start of the conflicts between our people, is finally dealing with the issue of Caldari Prime. Facing it. Taking steps to solve it, rather than pretending that they can ignore the matter until the Caldari simply go away or until our 'inevitable defeat'. Meanwhile the rest of the State is holding their breath, waiting to see if Ishukone's policy of engagement, compromise and negotiation will bear real fruit.

If I don't manage to convince people of anything else, I would hope to get these two points widely understood and accepted on the Federal side:

1. The Caldari people will not simply forget about Home. It is our principal 'causus belli' and it will remain a rallying point that can be used to ignite hatred and conflict between our people for so long as it is kept from us. Peace will remain impossible for so long as the matter is not resolved or being actively resolved - no leader will survive suggesting we cede our rights to our Homeworld.

2. The Federation faces a choice in how to proceed. They can engage with Reppola and Ishukone and choose the path of negotiation, compromise and honest engagement. Failing that, they can choose the path of statemate, insurgency and blood, knowing that any cessation of violence is nothing more than a pause to draw breath, recruit armies and construct ships.

The Senate faces a crossroads, a very real choice to effect either Peace and Understanding or War and Hatred. I hope they choose wisely and I hope the Gallente people keep them honest.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-03-27 15:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
And so I say again, this is the here and now, those living on the planet are those who have the greatest claim to it. Not you, not I, not the other billions upon billions of Caldari and Gallenteans who live elsewhere either by circumstance or because of their own choice.


Merely physically being somewhere does not give you any claim over it. Especially when that somewhere is stolen property.

When Caldari claim that world as Home, we do so because there are thousands and thousands of years of history there. The Raata empire, the Winds and Kresh Trees (which, by the way, pretty much every ethnic Gallentean on the planet needs to have genegineering or an inhaler for during pollen season). Those seas and mountains are an intimate part of our identity.

Nobody's denying that if you were born somewhere and want to live there, then that's fair enough. I'm not about to advocate turfing a person out of their house just because it's built on ancestrally Caldari land.

But it should, nevertheless, be recognised as Caldari land, as a - THE - Caldari planet. If your grandparent had some heirloom that they had shown you and promised you would inherit which was then stolen, then even if you had never in fact owned it, you would still view that heirloom as being yours by right. If you found somebody wearing it who had purchased it at a pawn shop, would you be content that it was legitimately their property now?

Home is the heirloom every one of our grandparents right back into veiled prehistory left us, and you're suggesting that the pawn shop customer's has more right to it than the true owner. I find that to be a deeply immoral sentiment.

The nice thing about this particular heirloom is that it can be shared. But it is OURS to share with you, not yours to share with us.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#117 - 2014-03-27 19:27:28 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

Relax, James. I don't see what your big fuss is about anyways. I never once suggested we would abandon the terms of the treaty. I never once suggested Federation citizens on CP would be denied the rights of their Constitution. In fact, this whole time I've been assuming even if Ishukone managed to takeover and control Material Acquisitions, that the Federal territories would remain Federal territories. That means Federal citizens living in those areas would still enjoy the same rights and protections as before.

Or is this less about the cry for "liberty", and more about planting your flag on Caldari Prime? Is your angle more akin to those who prefer to call it Luminaire VII? Do you simply not want us there at all? They say the Federation are little more than velvet-gloved imperialists. Prove me wrong.

I am appreciate the clarifications of your intentions.

As to planting our flag… its already there.

I believe you will find I have referred to the planet as Caldari Prime since a very similar conversation we had nearly two years ago.

But “symbolism” and “semantics”” aren't the issue.

You and yours are there, I understand the reality of the situation.

I don’t particularly care how you govern “your” citizens in “your” districts.

Its your designs on Federal districts and Federal citizens that preoccupy me.

As to velvet gloved imperialism…. I think the conciliatory actions of our government and Material Acquisitions regarding Caldari Prime and the Federations desire to defer to Caldari sensitivities have best demonstrate our intent.

The final status of Caldari Prime will be more complicated than, “yours” or “mine”.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#118 - 2014-03-27 19:31:47 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Its simple, most Gallente would be willing to turn the entire planet over to the State on the grounds that the Federation citizens on the planet are treated respectfully and willingly. Essentially, the same as a foreign resident.

No. They are not "foreign residents"! They were born there and have as much right to be there as anyone else. I would never support such an accommodation.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#119 - 2014-03-27 19:50:15 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm sorry that you find our history awkward and inconvenient to the occupiers you flooded our stolen Home with, but you don't get to take it off the table as irrelevant. If it were irrelevant we wouldn't be willing to sink so much blood and treasure into reclaiming it. As I've said to debaters from the Gallente side on this matter before - you don't have to agree, you simply have to understand how important it is to us. You simply have to understand that, because you are not going to change it.

See, what you are doing here is making your people living on the surface into the only obstacle to the planet simply being returned. In the strongest terms I am advising you that this is a mistake - people will simply draw the conclusion that all that is required is to convince the Gallente settlers to leave or to make them disappear in some way.

But that is for some exactly the problem. You won’t recognize their right to be there. How this issue is settled will determine the eventual status of Caldari Prime and don’t mistake it. Use veiled threats if you will regarding the fate of our citizenry on Caldari Prime. Blood will be answered with blood. You ask for our understanding of how import your “Home” is to you… I would advise you to take your own advice and grow some understanding of your own. The State will not dictate the terms of this settlement.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
My vision is for a means of "de-Gallente-ing" districts of the planet in a peaceful, measured, slow and orderly way that protects those being displaced and gives them the best possible chance for prosperity and success - whether that means living as State citizens, relocating elsewhere within the Federation or some other mutually agreeable solution.

I really don't care if it takes another two hundred years to encompass. You'll find that we're a much more patient people than you think. Neither do I require some bizarre ritual humiliation of the settlers, I'm quite happy for us to part on good terms.

Nice words and well said. You do have a talent. But the result of your desire is the same no matter the verbiage. I do however appreciate your thoughts.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#120 - 2014-03-27 20:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
James, we only control one side of the terms - the Federation controls the other side. I'm constantly amazed that you don't recognise this as your chance to put the State over a barrel in terms of negotiation. Want everything in Placid taken off the table? No problem. Want trade agreements? No problem. You could certainly arrange excellent terms for those citizens of yours...

Or maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, how about tying the return of the other half of Caldari Prime to a ceasefire? That would be attaching terms to the peace that ANYONE would be reluctant to hazard.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.