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"Minerals I mine are free"

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#21 - 2014-03-21 11:05:01 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:
The minerals you mine aren't free... no matter how you look at it. And this "exchange" you are talking about, without demonstrating a value for the time spent, capital required, and conversion rate of one commodity to another is likely a speculative venture that isn't at all lucrative.

I suspect based on "sense of achievement" you are confusing two things: 1.) performing a trade for profit and 2.) performing a trade for an altruisitc sense of achievement.

I prefer to do both, but profit comes first as it's the most powerful instrument for furthering any altruistic endeavor.

It's funny how you misinterpret my post just to have an argument. Or it's just your reading comprehension. Either way, your response says more about you than me.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-03-21 13:10:15 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
...Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own....
I won't comment on P4s because I don't produce them (I do produce P3s); and while on the surface it might seem like selling P2 mats is the smarter move... in reality it doesn't always work out that way.

P3s have a major advantage over P2s... compression. In deep null, shipping costs are an important consideration that is not clearly seen in market buys and sells.

I am not saying people are not making poor choices, just that compression of volume is a strong factor in my choices... and perhaps some others.
Spurty
#23 - 2014-03-21 13:44:31 UTC
I hate it whenever I warp to a belt and my wallet starts getting sucked dry.... Oh wait...

Of course they are free and you are free to charge whatever you want for stuff you make. Until it's an automatic fee to warp to a belt and engage the static and very dead rocks, it's certainly not costly.

What you say is unacceptable to those that don't even mine. My wallet remains the same if I mine or ship spin.

Now, if you're trying to sell us on "time is money", were not buying your poop sandwich as this is a game. I have a job where I actually use skills to pay a mortgage and taxes. Until CCP charges us tax like "isk to exist", time and money concept is dead here.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#24 - 2014-03-21 13:51:37 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:
[quote=Shizuken]
To somehow imply that "zero cost basis" and "perogative" are a justification or replacement for "ignorance" is flat out wrong. Strictly speaking "the minerals I mine are free" is an unlightened - or for those less sensitive - ignorant point of view.


I admit to not acting completely rational in Eve. What you call ignorant may be in some instances just an unwillingness to care.

I guess many do not want to check whether there's no better IRR available in the market. Occasionally I just want to build something because I can.

However, it would be surprising if this irrationality would have a magnitude to really distort the markets, as these players should not have the volumes.
Uncle Traveling Matt
Sapphire Dragon Industries
#25 - 2014-03-21 13:51:48 UTC
The other thing that irks me about these threads is that just because I may want to waste my time mining and not play in the "Eve-socially-acceptable method", I am somehow an inferior player. BULL****.

It just means at the time, maybe I don't want to do Incursions. Maybe I don't want to play Faction Warfare. Maybe I don't want to play the market game.

Maybe I want to be semi-AFK eating brownies and watching TV while attending to my mining lasers once in a while.

It's a game. I'll play how I darn well please, thank you very much.

UTM
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#26 - 2014-03-21 14:22:20 UTC
Confirming that both EvE is real, and I should turn it into a second job.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#27 - 2014-03-21 14:39:06 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:

There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.


why are you bothered by idiots who sell products below market value anyways? Someone who has a clue, will sell minerals instead of manufactored items.

I didnt like 100% recycling anyways so glad CCP fixed it. If you recycle something, you should do it at loss.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#28 - 2014-03-21 14:41:22 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

I didnt like 100% recycling anyways so glad CCP fixed it. If you recycle something, you should do it at loss.


I still have no idea where this 100% figure comes from.

No item reprocesses at 100%. Never has and never will.

They just said they were going to nerf a system that already is barely worth using.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#29 - 2014-03-21 15:25:33 UTC
I'll toss in something, the same goes for Tech3 stuff.

I used to be a what I mine is free, till I started doing other types of industry. When I see a tech3 electronics subsystem sell for 2m less then the cost of the nanoribbons needed to build it, I shake my head. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot and lose 2m (at least) per mod is beyond me.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#30 - 2014-03-21 16:00:29 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
I'll toss in something, the same goes for Tech3 stuff.

I used to be a what I mine is free, till I started doing other types of industry. When I see a tech3 electronics subsystem sell for 2m less then the cost of the nanoribbons needed to build it, I shake my head. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot and lose 2m (at least) per mod is beyond me.


nanoribbons I salvage are free

Now with 100% less Troll.
Serene Repose
#31 - 2014-03-21 16:12:13 UTC
Captain Obvious was here.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#32 - 2014-03-21 16:17:05 UTC
stuff I loot is free to me, but I am aware value I can make by sell them at market value.

however, question is, "Is it worth my time to try to make little extra or I can just dump it and go back to whatever I do for better isk/hr?"

no point to waste 1 hour of my time to make extra 1 million isk when I can just dump it and go back to my mission hub for 2 or 3 Mission which give more than 4 million isk of my time.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-03-21 16:29:43 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
I'll toss in something, the same goes for Tech3 stuff.

I used to be a what I mine is free, till I started doing other types of industry. When I see a tech3 electronics subsystem sell for 2m less then the cost of the nanoribbons needed to build it, I shake my head. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot and lose 2m (at least) per mod is beyond me.


Some player don't really care to check what part of industry is the best. They want to build stuff and sell said stuff. You don't really care if you lost 2 mill per mods if you dind't even look up the real value of whatever you put into it by not getting said input from the market.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#34 - 2014-03-21 19:05:04 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:


To somehow imply that "zero cost basis" and "perogative" are a justification or replacement for "ignorance" is flat out wrong. Strictly speaking "the minerals I mine are free" is an unlightened - or for those less sensitive - ignorant point of view.


Nevertheless, it still exists. Calling people ignorant over it wont change that. Some people just want to make things and arent worried about what is "smart" or "proper" business practice. They are happy to relax and not min/max their way to riches. That requires no justification.
Pew Terror
All of it
#35 - 2014-03-21 19:49:55 UTC
As in speech or as in beer?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-03-21 20:04:39 UTC
Ralen Zateki wrote:
Most things in life are not as complicated as tax law, thank God. Business is pretty simple. The time you spend mining minerals is worth something. The minerals are worth something. The time you spend mining minerals vs. doing something more lucrative is worth something.... the only real point in investing in business is to generate a ROI that is more robust than sticking your money in a mayonnaise jar and burying it in the back yard for a rainy day errr... savings account.
The time issue tends to become less relevant in the case of AFK mining. In isolation to eve the value of the same time to an AFK miner doing any more active profession is 0. That being the case, so long as time vs other activities is the point of comparison, rather than maximizing income from this activity, any use of the minerals is greater than alternatives.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#37 - 2014-03-21 21:04:08 UTC
I'm astounded at how far the average IQ of the EVE community has fallen.

The only good thing about this silly argument is that it is self correcting, as the people that foolishly give away their product for a fraction of its value eventually realize they aren't getting anywhere (and are often losing money instead of making money) and end up quitting in frustration.

Perhaps we'll get lucky and these individuals will acquire a gold mine somewhere and benefit us all by following the same misguided thought processes. I know grade schoolers with more business and economic sense.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#38 - 2014-03-21 22:03:12 UTC
Just buy the stuff people build and price under mineral price? Shocked
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#39 - 2014-03-22 00:26:28 UTC
Umbod Myrr wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.

There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.

Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market.

Why would you need to reprocess anything sold under mineral value? If it bothers you so much buy it and re-list it.


The point is that re listing might not be feasible because the guy is undercutting the market.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-03-22 00:58:11 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Umbod Myrr wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.

There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.

Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market.

Why would you need to reprocess anything sold under mineral value? If it bothers you so much buy it and re-list it.


The point is that re listing might not be feasible because the guy is undercutting the market.


Then all you can do is "deal with it". If the guy does not care about his real cost, there is nothing you can do to stop him as he can undercut untill just over the price of the factory line and still think he is turning a profit. It does not have to be true for the guy to belive it.