EVE General Discussion

And most looters are newbies who can't affort neither the ship nor the tank to survive rooms aggro for the blitzing.

What that the market part is a burden. Only if you want it to be. It doesn't impact people who crush loot scooped from missions and use it to make ships made from BPC's bought with LP from missions. Lots of people do this.
- Well this isn't going to change anything other than lowering the price and demand for these mods. Market will still be involved, people will still buy them/sell them, smash them and use them. No change after this.


Or is your complaint about some other trivial thing where people buy up all the Meta 1-3 just to smash them and take minerals.
-What is different about people buying up a bunch of Ore and smashing it for minerals


Or is your complaint about people making components to transport ore from HS to NS withouth needing compression because it is nonexistant in HS.
- New pos mod fixes that.

So what is your reason hun? You got a real gripe that has caused a serious issue with the game when people loot missions and smash the ore? Got a miner who lost out on 10M in the construction of an Astero because some guy looted his Angel Extravaganza? Got a Production alt who is angry that they can't find a 425 BPC because the evil null guys are using them all to run Trit from HS?


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

(Did I miss any of the complaints or did I catch them all?)

So based on the loot and mineral numbers here in the spreadsheet from here.
We're looking at a ~40% loot nerf. (The items that sell for more than their mineral value prevent it from being a straight 50% nerf.)

So at 800 isk/LP, the normalized assets earned per hour goes from 87M/hour to 80M/hour, or an 8% drop.

Meh.

I'm not Tippia, but it is ridiculous that people think it's a better idea to melt meta 1-3 items for minerals instead of melting ore for minerals. It's even more immersion-breaking for me (if I had any left after going bittervet with several alts) that people build 425mm Railguns or Bastion modules to move minerals around, as opposed to, you know, compress ore and use that to move things around. EVE has always tried to be a somewhat organic universe, and moving compressed ore around has a lot more versimilitude than moving battleship parts as a packing mechanism. (Or, for another example, building or buying capitals, jumping them into nullsec, and then reprocessing them for the parts because it was less effort than building the parts yourself. I wonder how many supers are effectively made by running bunches of carriers through a chop-shop.)

Furthermore, the scrapmetal nerf was going to be coming no matter what. While rebalancing frigates and cruisers, they discovered that you can't increase the cost of things you've made better by adding minerals, because some jackass will build them for the old mineral cost and reprocess for magic minerals. (which is both immersion-breaking *and* game-breaking) After adding bad solutions like extra materials, they needed to find a way to undo it. For example, some of the T1 cruisers are damn close to 50% extra materials as a result. This screws up insurance pricing as a side effect.

Does this also nerf null sec anom runners? Since they lose out on the same loot reprocessing? Where's their rage? Did I miss it?

The old ship tiers had different build cost, and when the tiers was removed that price was adjusted.

It is irrational to choose non-ice/ore reprocessing over ice/ore refining after this change.
So there goes that argument of yours out the window.

It is also irrational to waste time on bringing trash to market after this change.
So there goes that argument out the window.

It is irrational to claim that the base mineral value of all non-ice/ore items in the entire game is NOT reduced by the change, when the change explicitly and absolutely reduces the base mineral yield from those very same items.
So there goes that argument out the window.

I am reminded of the scene in Blade Runner where Batty ecxlaims to Deckard:
"That was irrational of you. Not to mention unsportsmanlike".

How is it irrational to get more minerals?

How is it irrational to get more for the same amount of work?

…except that none of the base values are being changed other than for mined products, where they go up.
Moreover, the mineral value of anything produced is whatever is used in the production — what you get out when refining the item does not affect its value. This is fundamental market understanding and knowledge that you're failing here…

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

There was no reason to change the cost. "Better" is relative. Your Caracal is countered by many ships even in its own weight class, heck even under its weight class! Basing cost increase on ship performance is an arbitrary change. Just as the change to processing is an arbitrary change. Change for the sake of change, grounded in no factual reasoning other than change. That is it.

But here is the kicker. The price of a Caracal is based on the mineral cost input + premium. If you go buy caracals on the market and crush them for minerals you lose money. Sure you may evade the mining of ore, but you lose on an ISK cost ratio every single time. Such is the beauty of a self correcting economy.

So no the change has nothing to do with the cost increases of ships, because people who buy ships for minerals are doing so at a loss, its cheaper to buy the ore and smash it if you are after ore. The only reason one would buy product for minerals is to transport it. But that issue was remedied with the changes to compression announced, and has nothing to do with reprocessing of scrap.

Ultimately it is change for change sake. Just as CCP didn't have to change costs of ships, they don't have to change % of scrap processing. They do so simply because they have decided to. It has no bearing on the markets, it has no impact on mining, it has no impact on mass production, it is an arbitrary change.

You get more minerals from ore refinement. Hence it would be irrational to not choose ore reprocessing.

It is not the same amount of work. It takes longer to loot than it takes not to loot. If the potential yield of that loot is reduced (as it directly is by this change) that time is increasingly better spent by moving to the next combat activity. Hence it would be irrational to spend the same amount of work looting reduced value loot, rather than moving to next activity.



The reprocessed mineral base value of ALL non-ice/ore refinable items is reduced in the change, as a factor of the reduced efficiency. ALL of them. Whereas ice/ore refining has greater efficiency. What you get out of an item on reprocessing is INTRINSIC to the items value, post production. This is a fundamental market understanding and knowledge YOU are utterly failing in here. It does not entirely define it, but it is a significant influence upon it. Consider if there was no reprocessing value for **** modules. They would be worth exactly 0 then. Consider if there was no reprocessing value for 425mms in the games current incarnation. Hmm? Do you see the point with your puffy eyes?

And what is the most ridiculous and self-defeating part of that claim you make above, since you claim reprocessing value has no bearing on the value of an item, consider if NO item had a reprocessing value. Then there would be no ******* reprocessing profession at all, would there. No wonder you dont understand the issues at hand here since you seem capable of actually thinking that would be reasonable.

Every single non-ore/ice item has its mineral value reduced by this change. It doesn't matter whether the perceived value of the item is vested in its function, its color, its name or whatever else. That has no bearing on the fact that beneath that, the structural actual mineral value of that item is effectively reduced, due to the reduced efficiency of reprocessing that item to get to them.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the enormity of this. I keep restating it, but its not sinking in for you.

The base mineral value of ALL ships and modules is reduced by this, because their value in minerals as a factor of efficiency in reprocessing them into them, is reduced by this change. Everything, everywhere, now yields less minerals when reprocessed, than before.