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Reprocessing Changes Dev Blog

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Celeste Benal
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-03-21 20:28:32 UTC
Reads DEVBLOG...

Checks skills...

Refining 5. Refinery Efficiency 5. All specialty skills at 4.

Does a little dance!

Happy Day! I knew those skills would come in handy eventually. In fact, I'm so happy, when I get home I'm going to change my Avatar's facial expression to have a big smile!
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-03-21 20:40:45 UTC
Celeste Benal wrote:
Reads DEVBLOG...

Checks skills...

Refining 5. Refinery Efficiency 5. All specialty skills at 4.

Does a little dance!

Happy Day! I knew those skills would come in handy eventually. In fact, I'm so happy, when I get home I'm going to change my Avatar's facial expression to have a big smile!




I checked in on my production guy and I'm pretty sure they have all relevant skills to 4 and are in process of getting them to 5...cause why not. Also time to go buy an implant...
Alcorak
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-03-21 21:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alcorak
So you wanted compressed ore to be comparable to 425mm railguns - so you buffed compressed ore to make them comparable. Then you hit 425mm railguns with a 50% nerf - huh!? 50%!!!!!??!?!?! It's supposed to be the recycling methodologies of the future, not a divorce settlement!
Dave stark
#64 - 2014-03-21 21:36:24 UTC
solid set of changes.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#65 - 2014-03-22 00:11:06 UTC
Mineral prices are going to spike, which means produced item prices are going to spike harder. Happy times.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#66 - 2014-03-22 00:56:32 UTC
SJ Astralana wrote:
Mineral prices are going to spike, which means produced item prices are going to spike harder. Happy times.

I wouldn't count on that.
Depends how the economy settles, since null is capable of getting nearly 20% extra minerals out of the same volume of ore, while the average high sec miner will loose about 5% on their current refining.

The main issue this is going to create is it's created an unbeatable advantage for Null industrialists, who already actually had advantages (just most coalitions were stuck too far in the past to actually use said advantages) where Null products are capable of being dramatically cheaper. At the same time as they gain all the other advantages of null space like Loot, Moon Goo, Vastly better PI... etc etc.

To whoever it was who said why shouldn't Null be better, that's why. Null is already better. Null should not be the best at everything, or EVE has gone from being a sand box to being a theme park.
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
#67 - 2014-03-22 02:35:33 UTC
Mineral prices won't spike... at least not tritanium and pyerite.

There are trillions of units of tritanium in Jita, and the day of the patch, it will all become useless for the one activity that uses the most minerals: building capital ships.

The reason it will be useless: it is in high sec and without 425mm railguns, it is too bulky to move to null sec.

Capital ship producers will be buying compressed veldspar and scordite - not tritanium and pyerite.
Kijyat
BTK Mercenary Group
Lucky Starbase Syndicate
#68 - 2014-03-22 02:40:07 UTC
Susan Black wrote:
Simply put, imagine if every time you bought a carton of eggs, you had to throw one out due to it being rotten.

Then, some of the chickens get sick, decreasing the quality of eggs even more.

The BAD news is, every carton of eggs you buy you have to throw out TWO eggs now. The good news is, the egg companies started selling eggs in cartons of 13 instead of cartons of 12 to compensate.


Either way, you're bringing home 11 good eggs, even if you're throwing more away every time you buy a carton.


It's the same with this change. You get more waste, but you have more to waste so it works out the same as before.



Great analogy! but my interpretation since I already have 100% refine is:

Every time I get eggs, the carton always has 12 good eggs. CCP is saying that they are going to purposely put rotten eggs in every carton, that it is impossible to get a carton of eggs without at least one of them being rotten. To keep players buying their plexes/subscriptions errr eggs; they are going to increase the carton of eggs to 13 to make it look like players are getting the same amount of good eggs. But since it is impossible to ever get a dozen good eggs in a carton, the 13th egg will always be rotten.

Sorry it doesn't work out as the same as before.
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#69 - 2014-03-22 04:29:51 UTC
I own a rorqual and the only reason I had it was to compress the ore that was mined in the WH.


Then came change 1... Seems me ore sites no longer were hidden. Seems someone thought it was too much work to actually get skilled at scanning and to learn to scan. You could mine in a WH and hit Dscan when the probes showed up you ran. At least the null guys have local. Now in WHs there are no warning probes and no warning local. Consequence: Mining in WHs is basically suicide unless you have no WHs open into you. Guess what, mining basically stopped in our WH... well except that new guy that just lost his hulk due to the above.

Now this change... I love the new interface, don't get me wrong. I love the compression changes except for all that training I did so I could compress every ore out there. But... do I need a rorqual? Absolutely not! I have a 1.5 billion dollar paperweight sitting in my POS. If I ever mine again in my home I am setting up my refinery. after all I only compressed the ore so I could haul the ore out and refine it in a HS station that did far better than my refinery at the POS.

Seems with the new compression module to add to your POS the only use the rorqual had is gone. So CCP while you are giving me my money back for all those BPOs how about reimbursing me for the rorqual as well?



On to refining skills.

If the argument is that to be good at something you should have to skill it should apply to every way that you do something regardless of where you live. My skill 4s and 5s should mean something if I am refining ore at my POS. That investment in training should mean something important. It should provide me with an advantage over the guy that has no skill. Regardless of where you are and what you are using, when you use it, whether its an AB, a 150mm gun or mineral refining, your skills should give you an advantage over the guy without skills.




Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2014-03-22 05:19:08 UTC
OK, since I've only ever been a lowly High Sec miner and therefore without the privilege of a Rorqual or POS actually can someone please explain to me the benefit of compression? I'm picking it's because of the obvious compressing allows more in one area yeah?

What skills are needed for compression then if these changes are going to allow the possibility of high sec POS without jumping through hoops? I'd like to get a jump on. :-)
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#71 - 2014-03-22 07:18:06 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
SJ Astralana wrote:
Mineral prices are going to spike, which means produced item prices are going to spike harder. Happy times.

I wouldn't count on that.


You present a very well thought out counter-argument that makes sense. I've been expanding into more BPOs prior to this announcement, and if my battleships become less profitable worst case I'm hedged. Nevertheless I love change for what it teaches.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Dave stark
#72 - 2014-03-22 08:21:15 UTC
SJ Astralana wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
SJ Astralana wrote:
Mineral prices are going to spike, which means produced item prices are going to spike harder. Happy times.

I wouldn't count on that.


You present a very well thought out counter-argument that makes sense. I've been expanding into more BPOs prior to this announcement, and if my battleships become less profitable worst case I'm hedged. Nevertheless I love change for what it teaches.


I think the logic there is people aren't going to buy minerals to export any more. if the demand goes down then so does the price.
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#73 - 2014-03-22 14:32:08 UTC
It's a buff to mining efficiency if you refine with better skills/implants than the blog balancing point.
Yeah, the rorq is definitely going to need a buff.
Nullsec & WH mining for export got buffed.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-03-22 15:16:41 UTC
i actually made a spreadsheet to calculate if it's worth building an outpost or upgrading one with a refinery.

right now it's WIP since i am not done and not happy with the functionality. Also Lockefox is doing some things in the sheet and i am note exactly sure what his goal is.

but some things are already there and working:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeSjuDVQf0TdF9QTnpRVUJrMUVna0tKY3pkTjZ0dVE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

the sheet shows you the amount of ore (in ISK) you need to refine in order to get back your investment, in each case compared to a 50% NPC station, assuming perfect standings. even though the numbers may seem high (435b for a T3 Minmatar Refinery) they are actually not. I currently make stuff in highsec, one character, 10 lines, lazymode. in last 30 days i went through 150 billion ISK in material. not all of it minerals, but it gives you a sense of scale. any serious industrial corporation will make the ISK back in no time.

I am not yet exactly sure if i want a T3 Minmatar Refinery with POS manufacturing or a T2 Amarr with a T3 Factory and a T1 Plant Upgrade. It's probably going to be the T3 Minmatar for Caps and Supers and the Amarr one for T1 Ships.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#75 - 2014-03-22 17:39:33 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i actually made a spreadsheet to calculate if it's worth building an outpost or upgrading one with a refinery.

right now it's WIP since i am not done and not happy with the functionality. Also Lockefox is doing some things in the sheet and i am note exactly sure what his goal is.

but some things are already there and working:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeSjuDVQf0TdF9QTnpRVUJrMUVna0tKY3pkTjZ0dVE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

the sheet shows you the amount of ore (in ISK) you need to refine in order to get back your investment, in each case compared to a 50% NPC station, assuming perfect standings. even though the numbers may seem high (435b for a T3 Minmatar Refinery) they are actually not. I currently make stuff in highsec, one character, 10 lines, lazymode. in last 30 days i went through 150 billion ISK in material. not all of it minerals, but it gives you a sense of scale. any serious industrial corporation will make the ISK back in no time.

I am not yet exactly sure if i want a T3 Minmatar Refinery with POS manufacturing or a T2 Amarr with a T3 Factory and a T1 Plant Upgrade. It's probably going to be the T3 Minmatar for Caps and Supers and the Amarr one for T1 Ships.




Nice sheet.

I could see the alliances that own the stations setting a tax rate to still give their indy's a benefit, but skimming off the top for bottom up income. Which is a pretty good plan, I'd say.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-03-22 17:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
yup, but you need to be careful with that tax. it's a trivial thing for Cap Building, still MUCH more profitable under the new system. even with a refinery tax set by the owner. but for things like T1 Ships you need to factor in JF costs for transport to highsec. And those fuel costs will add up rather quickly and shrink your margin.
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-03-22 17:51:23 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
yup, but you need to be careful with that tax. it's a trivial thing for Cap Building, still MUCH more profitable under the new system. even with a refinery tax set by the owner. but for things like T1 Ships you need to factor in JF costs for transport to highsec. And those fuel costs will add up rather quickly and shrink your margin.


The Volition Cult has a 3% refinery tax on their refinery.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-03-22 18:12:39 UTC
2% or 3% feels okay, anything above that is not that great. oh, and the further away you are from jita or amarr, the harder it gets to make things profitable for the T1 business. Every additional jump means additional fuel costs. and fuel is going up and won't stop anytime soon.
Ewersmen
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-03-22 20:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ewersmen
The reasons you give for making these changes are dumb

If it aint broke don't fix it .....remember that one.

I have a suggestion, why not get your team to work on the lag (aka td) so your sandbox can operate in the manor you advertise.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-03-22 22:10:27 UTC
Ewersmen wrote:
The reasons you give for making these changes are dumb

If it aint broke don't fix it .....remember that one.

I have a suggestion, why not get your team to work on the lag (aka td) so your sandbox can operate in the manor you advertise.


ou have no idea how wrong you are. go ask your economic warfare kabal goon overlords how they think about this