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Breaking News - Ishukone meets with Gallente Senate on Caldari Prime
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Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#101 - 2014-03-22 05:46:53 UTC
Isnt this good news?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#102 - 2014-03-22 05:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Ava Starfire wrote:
Isnt this good news?

It should be. But apparently this isn't the cake everyone wants.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#103 - 2014-03-22 05:52:55 UTC
The more this discussion has developed the more I become convinced Ishukone remains the legitimate choice for those seeking to cultivate a persecution complex for the expression of affected public histrionics.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#104 - 2014-03-22 06:22:51 UTC
That's the best you got, Ms. Gesakaarin? Ishukone may not be your corp, but I'm not sure belittling their position is going to help yours.

-Eran
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#105 - 2014-03-22 06:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
Eran Mintor wrote:
That's the best you got, Ms. Gesakaarin? Ishukone may not be your corp, but I'm not sure belittling their position is going to help yours.

-Eran

What position? All that matters now are two factors;
What terms Reppola-haan negotiates for the State as a whole.
Whether or not the other Okusaikan are bright enough to cure their individual cases of cranial-rectal-inversion and open talks of their own.

The "position" of an independent capsuleer who'se only constituents are her own employees is so immaterial, it's practically subterranean on the scale in terms of the larger picture. That goes for pretty much everyone here. In the end, unless somebody else in an actual position of consequence bites back their hubris and starts talking, they get to rely on Ishukone, irrespective to whether their ego can take it or not, to negotiate for Home.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-03-22 07:33:55 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
That's the best you got, Ms. Gesakaarin? Ishukone may not be your corp, but I'm not sure belittling their position is going to help yours.

-Eran

What position? All that matters now are two factors;
What terms Reppola-haan negotiates for the State as a whole.
Whether or not the other Okusaikan are bright enough to cure their individual cases of cranial-rectal-inversion and open talks of their own.

Saya-hnolku, the only cranial-rectal inversion anyone can see, is one of your body.
Reppola can't talk for the State, since he is just one of CEOs, and CEO of megacorp, that became a black sheep of the State, megacorp that always were against the whole State for all the time since corporations started to work together.
Ishukone simply can't work together with others.
And Ishukone can't work for benefit of whole Caldari peoples, choosing a way of traitor.
The way, which you have choosen as well personally.
And you are just plain disgusting because of it.
You with them are traitors, and, you are just physically unable to object it.

Saya Ishikari wrote:

The "position" of an independent capsuleer who'se only constituents are her own employees is so immaterial, it's practically subterranean on the scale in terms of the larger picture. That goes for pretty much everyone here. In the end, unless somebody else in an actual position of consequence bites back their hubris and starts talking, they get to rely on Ishukone, irrespective to whether their ego can take it or not, to negotiate for Home.

Please note, not YOUR home, but home of Caldari.
OUR home.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-03-22 09:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Ava Starfire wrote:
Isnt this good news?


I saw an imported reality 3V show once - my sister has an incomprehensible fondness for them - where some teenager's parents have, true to her wishes, got her the exact make, model, colour (eye-torturing pink) and features package of personal ground vehicle she demanded for her birthday. Not requested, I should stress, but demanded. This is not a cheap vehicle.

The doting father delivers it to the family's luxurious driveway on the morning of her birthday.... whereupon she bursts into tears and rushes from the room shrieking that it was supposed to arrive AFTER she started opening the rest of her presents and that her birthday is ruined, they never listen to her, she hates them, etc. etc.

At which point my dear shenane finally developed a sense of mercy and acquiesced to my pitiful begging for her to change the channel.

Go look it up, it's sickeningly fascinating.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-03-22 10:49:03 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Isnt this good news?

In support of Verin's point just above, I want to stress that there are genuinely still at least a few people in the State who would consider the full return of Caldari Prime and its attendant aerospace to State control an abject, unacceptable failure if it wasn't obtained via a brutal, crushing military defeat of the Federation. For these people there can be no joy without the Federation suffering commensurate misery. They will not accept it, cannot accept any victory unless it's not only delivered in the form they demand but by the method they demand.

I'm not by any means saying this typifies most Caldari. It doesn't even typify many. But there are a scant, toweringly insane few who will not accept any peace or settlement whatsoever, no matter how favourable it is to their side, unless it's deeply unfavourable to the other.

The problem is not with the vast, sane majority of Caldari who just want Caldari Prime back and would accept any settlement as long as it's reasonable, and it never has been. The problem is with the lunatic fringe (and never has that term been more appropriate) who will sabotage any peace if it isn't delivered on their terms and their terms alone.

And before people believe I'm only criticising the State's insane fanatics, an almost perfect mirror of this problem also exists within the Federation, albeit for slightly different reasons.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#109 - 2014-03-22 11:00:42 UTC
None of know what is going to discussed. We all should have some patience. The idea that Roden goverment is going to discuss handing back 50% of our homeworld, i find hard to believe.Only year ago that they sent huge invasion force, which resulted in the loss of huge amount of life.That they are going to hand it back over, its absurd. Im sure it was in their manifesto that they would retake Caldari Prime back. Im sure it appeased the Gallente populace that they retook 50% back, the job is not completed. More likely sooner or later they will tell Reppola they want the other 50%. You can hand it over or we will take it by force. If you dont hand it over trade deals Ishukone has with the Federation will be sanctioned.

I dont know what they will be discussing, sovereignty of the planet i wouldnt of thought so.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#110 - 2014-03-22 12:16:14 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
Well written post that helped me understand some of what is going on here.


Thanks for this.

Basically, being the one to go against the status quo, and push for peace when everyone else wants war, is a hard row to hoe. But, the old saying "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking" comes to mind.

Kind of not surprised to see Ishukone be the one doing the thinking.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2014-03-22 15:18:42 UTC
In politics it is never so simple.

Some people are seeing this as 'just a convoy of trucks,' Others are seeing it as a welcome meeting between two countries locked into a cold war. Others still are seeing it as an act of war between one megacorp, an enemy and the other megacorps.

Certainly the balances of power in the State are changing though it will be difficult to say how. Perhaps Ishukone will supplant Kaalakiota as most powerful mega, perhaps the other megas will do as much as they can to subvert Ishukone and reignite the war of ten years ago. There really is not any way to tell what is going to happen. I would argue that what is or is not happening, is far less important than the reaction, what people think is going to happen. If Kaalakiota thinks it is the first step to a mega leaving and an act of war does it really matter if it is?

Anyway, this is all speculation still. But it has made for some interesting fractures in the Iceberg of the state.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-03-22 16:22:22 UTC
I can safely say, Ishukone is being smart. Patriots, ask yourself this. You have fought and died for five years, what have you actually gained? Half a planet?

You're losing a lot more than you are gaining Patriots. The Federal military is a wall that you are just splaterring against. Sometimes you make that wall shake and wobble, but it will never fall. Where am I going with this? I'm saying niether the Federation nor the State will achieve total victory over the other. If we both follow the examples of the Senate and Ishukone, this war will be over.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#113 - 2014-03-22 20:13:42 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I can safely say, Ishukone is being smart. Patriots, ask yourself this. You have fought and died for five years, what have you actually gained? Half a planet?

You're losing a lot more than you are gaining Patriots. The Federal military is a wall that you are just splaterring against. Sometimes you make that wall shake and wobble, but it will never fall. Where am I going with this? I'm saying niether the Federation nor the State will achieve total victory over the other. If we both follow the examples of the Senate and Ishukone, this war will be over.


Fred, we fight the war until the war is done. You don't always fight because it's the smartest choice, because it's efficient or because you are winning. You fight because it is a warrior's duty to place his body between his home and the war's devastation. And yes, there is still real devastation out there, for all that the war is fake.

But that doesn't mean you aren't praying nightly to the Winds for someone whose job it IS to come and finish it. We're just trying to give those people the best bargaining position that we can. Nobody expects the Federation Military to fall - nobody outside of Diana Kim truly believes we can do anything more than make attacking the State a horrendously, prohibitively, expensive nightmare.

Ishukone is probably our best chance to finish the war on endurable terms, but Ishukone cannot end the war themselves. They need the CEP to ratify any deal they make for it to be binding on the rest of the Okusaiken - unless they're negotiating for a unilateral end to hostilities which only applies to themselves which, I believe, would actually dance pretty close to the legal definition of treason.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-03-22 20:45:01 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone is probably our best chance to finish the war on endurable terms, but Ishukone cannot end the war themselves. They need the CEP to ratify any deal they make for it to be binding on the rest of the Okusaiken - unless they're negotiating for a unilateral end to hostilities which only applies to themselves which, I believe, would actually dance pretty close to the legal definition of treason.


Or they could just be erecting a memorial monument to mark the anniversary of Operation Highlander.

Which from my perspective makes all of the mistrust and criticism and formal complaints to the CEP seem both amusing and troubling.

I'd express my hope that maybe the grumblers might learn from the egg on their collective face and show a little more respect and trust in future, if I were hopelessly naive.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#115 - 2014-03-22 21:23:36 UTC
I'm sure some will question the inclusion of Federation military servicemen and women on the memorial, perhaps suggesting that only the Caldari lives lost should be remembered. I think the focus on Caldari traditions places enough respectful emphasis on the defeated State forces.

It's made from Titanium Diborite, the choice and traditional material of Caldari military shipbuilding, a plate from the Shiigeru itself even. It's set on a bedrock stone from the sacred Kaalakiota Mountains themselves, in an area that was the home and birthplace of the honored Admiral Yanala herself. On top of all that, the final script is written in Raata, in the words of a Caldari Chief Executive himself.

If anything, it seems to be a Caldari memorial that happens to honor the Federation lives lost as well. It seems very much the opposite of a Federation victory monument to me.

I think... I may be almost comfortable with this. I'm hesitant, but I think I can accept this.

Katrina Oniseki
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#116 - 2014-03-22 21:29:13 UTC
Now I understand the need for secrecy. After all, one can not be expected to inform others about highly classified information such as a memorial for the fallen.

You think this is amusing?

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#117 - 2014-03-22 21:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
TomHorn wrote:
None of know what is going to discussed. We all should have some patience. The idea that Roden goverment is going to discuss handing back 50% of our homeworld, i find hard to believe.Only year ago that they sent huge invasion force, which resulted in the loss of huge amount of life.That they are going to hand it back over, its absurd. Im sure it was in their manifesto that they would retake Caldari Prime back. Im sure it appeased the Gallente populace that they retook 50% back, the job is not completed. More likely sooner or later they will tell Reppola they want the other 50%. You can hand it over or we will take it by force. If you dont hand it over trade deals Ishukone has with the Federation will be sanctioned.

I dont know what they will be discussing, sovereignty of the planet i wouldnt of thought so.

You don’t understand it because you don’t understand us.

It isn't State sovereignty of Caldari Prime that many of us find unacceptable Mr. Horn.

It was simply the abomination in orbit above it and what it represented.

I tried to tell you earlier that you may well be surprised at how accommodating we can be to a reasonable and honorable settlement now that the choice is ours.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#118 - 2014-03-22 21:34:22 UTC
I don't find it amusing that half the State was up in arms over it.
I don't find it amusing that we got into arguments on the IGS about it.

What I find, is just a distinct sense of shame. If the Patriots have egg on their faces for getting so hostile about it, they aren't the only ones.

Guilty as charged.

Katrina Oniseki
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#119 - 2014-03-22 21:44:40 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I don't find it amusing that half the State was up in arms over it.
I don't find it amusing that we got into arguments on the IGS about it.

What I find, is just a distinct sense of shame. If the Patriots have egg on their faces for getting so hostile about it, they aren't the only ones.

Guilty as charged.


We might not read the same set of news, because I've seen reports of suspicion and inquiries that have not been answered. How this translates to hostility or, indeed, egg on their faces, is beyond me.
However, I see an absurd amount of secrecy regarding something that, by all means, should include everyone who fought, suffered and died in this conflict, and the last time I've checked this does include quite a lot of groups that seemed to have not been present there.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-03-22 21:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Wickonian
i believe the secrecy was merely to ensure terrorists did not ruin the event. As lets face it, what way to ruin the sense of cooperation than to destroy the memorial during the ceremony