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English test being too hard in Finnish matriculation exam ?

Author
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-03-21 23:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I only read the first one but I think it's too hard. To me, it's about as difficult as pretty much any other English text I've had to deal with from early grades all the way through college advanced placement classes. Now my natural language skills are particularly good, but I have never done well in school language classes because their teaching style actively undermines my learning style. The problem is that they are trying to push the students' reading comprehension above the level of whoever writes their shoddy test material. They ask questions that don't have one good answer, or the answers they give are either all kind of right or none right. They expect the students to interpret the text in one and only one way: the way the test question author interpreted it.

I've got a much more effective test that is also easier to administer: ask the students to read and understand the passage, then take the text away from them and have them write down what it said in their own words. Now you have to have a well-trained teacher for grading their responses, as most teachers will utterly fail at this. The test grader must be capable of seeing the passage from the viewpoint of the reader/rewriter. The job of the grader is to find as many parallels as possible with the original text, while ignoring all but glaringly obvious disparities. Most teachers will try to find small faults in the work, and it is this style of grading that will actively undermine the student's effort to learn the language in the way that works best for them.

To give an example, if a student claims that Cape Town is a national park with people who look like animals:
a.) a typical instructor response would be that Cape Town is inside a park and is not the park itself, and that there is nothing in the text suggesting that the people are zoomorphic in any way.
b.) a much better response would be to note that the student was able to understand the locale of the city, and remembered reading that the people dress and decorate in a fashion reminiscent of their surroundings.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

BLACK-STAR
#22 - 2014-03-22 01:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: BLACK-STAR
Well... it has been said already, but that exam is a mess. There's massive paragraphs and big words for a 3rd-10th grade student.

What sort of English exam that uses URLs and mixes a bunch of foreign names in the examples . , ; ' ? A critically stupid exam, that's what it is.

Edit: Grammar.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#23 - 2014-03-22 04:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
but isn't that the whole point ?

wasn't it JFK that said ..we don't go to the moon because its easy ... but because its hard
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#24 - 2014-03-22 07:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Seems I need to correct some misconceptions that some posters have raised.
So to clarify; kids taking these test are usually between 17-19 years old and these tests are used to score points when applying to universities in Finland.
You can also apply as an adult to these tests if you have an upper secondary school or equivalent education.

School in Finland starts at the ages of 6-7 not 4 like in the states and some other countries which might have confused some.
So kids who take the A-language test have studied the language from age of 10 (or 3rd grade) and B or second language (always Swedish by law) starts at grade 7 at this time some also add a 3rd language for their studies which has traditionally been German but some schools can arrange other languages such Spain or Russian.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#25 - 2014-03-22 11:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelique Duchemin
Finland needs to be reabsorbed into the Swedish Empire as they evidently can't be trusted to take care of themselves.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#26 - 2014-03-22 11:40:24 UTC
Well you know the old proverb "Sweden fights to the last Finn" Big smile

And considering how much Sweden has dropped it's military strength in recent years this indeed seems to be the case.

But military issues aside Scandinavia would benefit from a new calamari union but who would lead is the big question and that leader in not going to be swedes. Blink
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#27 - 2014-03-22 14:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Finland needs to be reabsorbed into the Swedish Empire as they evidently can't be trusted to take care of themselves.




be careful what you wish for ... because this chap might have something to say about it

and I wouldnt wanna **** with him
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#28 - 2014-03-22 23:34:16 UTC
jason hill wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
I'm a native English speaker, but I've taught English as a Foreign Language (EFL) and been a foreign language learner also. That test seems pretty difficult to me. The reading passages are all raw, natural English taken from magazines such as National Geographic, Oprah Magazine, and The Economist. They have quite a few idioms that only fairly advanced English speakers would be aware of. For example: "take ownership of," "intuited," "as we speak, Carson spends his day devouring trade magazines...."

I can't read the questions in Finnish, so I don't know how difficult they are. But those reading passages are pretty difficult for high school level, I think. In addition to understanding the English, the student has to have pretty good reading comprehension skills (in whatever language). I'd bet some native English-speaking high school students wouldn't comprehend the articles100%.


isn't this the whole point of the test in the 1st place ? we native English speakers take our native tongue for granted to the extent that we are under misguided delusion that we expect everyone to speak and write it .to the detriment of our selves and IMO its hurting us in the job market as we are churning out kids that can neither read nor can they write .

European jobseekers coming to England have a better chance in the uk job market simply because they are better educated than our younger generation . I find this really sad . as our uk education system is in an absaloute mess hence those that can afford to get their kids educated privately if they can afford .

this is one of the reasons me and wife decided not to have kids because uk education ...unless you can afford it ...is basically crap .
my brother emigrated to new Zealand because of his kids getting a education

It's the same here in the U.S., IMO. I doubt there are many Americans who could read articles at that level after a high school education in a foreign language. Maybe that's because students don't start studying a second language until they're about 13-14 years old. Smile And even then, the language isn't a "core" mandatory subject, it's sort of an elective thing. Foreign language ability isn't tested at all in the university entrance exams, so even the "smart" kids don't have much incentive to study them.

The other problem here is we're just isolated. I studied French in school six years. But didn't meet a live French-speaker until about 15 years later. Attention
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#29 - 2014-03-23 00:18:16 UTC
jason hill wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Finland needs to be reabsorbed into the Swedish Empire as they evidently can't be trusted to take care of themselves.




be careful what you wish for ... because this chap might have something to say about it

and I wouldnt wanna **** with him



That is one of the most epic historical texts I have ever read. I like the color the writer added. If history texts read like this all the time, kids around the world might actually retain some of the info Lol
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#30 - 2014-03-23 01:00:41 UTC
yup ! coming from an English bloke this guy is a bad ass dude ..I wouldn't wanna fuk the finns
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#31 - 2014-03-23 06:55:50 UTC
Might also add that Häyhä was also a very modest man and was somewhat uncomfortable with all the fame piled on his name. Cool
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#32 - 2014-03-23 11:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
I case someone is interested on what else is actually asked in the tests as a whole I found this listing from previous years (answers included).

the YLE site is meant for rehearsing for the matriculation exam and it seems that they don't consider it important to cater for foreign students so you might want to check the English (Englanti) tests only.

Unfortunately you have to use google translate to navigate the site though but here's the lexicon:

pitkä = long
short = lyhyt
YO-kokeet = test for the matriculation exam (or University Student exams).

As for the so called reaali-test before 2006 you had all the subjects on one exam and you chose on subjects which to answer.
After 2006 you take the test on 2 consecutive days and choose 2 subjects.
The tests are paired according to "popularity" (so history + society or physics + chemistry and so forth) this allows a more detailed test then was previously possible.

You can write only 2 subjects per testing and as much as 6 six can be done by diving them to different exam dates (2 at spring and 2 at autumn of the same year and last 2 on the next years spring).

Since 2014 exams are still under way, not all exams have been revealed yet.

Edit:
site also has the listening test as well (kuullun ymmärtäminen) so you can see how well would you score on the test.
You have 9 hours (3 for listening and 6 for written) good luck ! Cool
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#33 - 2014-03-24 14:54:39 UTC
Truth or Myth ??


The QI Elves ‏@qikipedia 4h

The Finnish word for pedant, pilkunnussija, translates literally as ‘comma f**ker’.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#34 - 2014-03-24 15:41:12 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Truth or Myth ??


The QI Elves ‏@qikipedia 4h

The Finnish word for pedant, pilkunnussija, translates literally as ‘comma f**ker’.


Both correct but Tolkien also used welsh and some other languages when inventing elvish.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#35 - 2014-03-24 15:55:48 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Truth or Myth ??


The QI Elves ‏@qikipedia 4h

The Finnish word for pedant, pilkunnussija, translates literally as ‘comma f**ker’.


Both correct but Tolkien also used welsh and some other languages when inventing elvish.


BOTH correct ? That doesn't really answer the question. And this has absolutely nothing to do with JRR.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#36 - 2014-03-24 16:27:57 UTC
Well I don't speak internets so had to interpret what the first sentence tried to say. P
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-03-24 16:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Baneken wrote:
Well I don't speak internets so had to interpret what the first sentence tried to say. P
He's asking if the story about Häyhä is true or not. (I think)

I feel inclined to suspect that it is embellished but at least contains some nuggets of truth.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#38 - 2014-03-24 17:17:48 UTC
Lets talk english here, or at least try. Lol
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#39 - 2014-03-24 18:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Well I don't speak internets so had to interpret what the first sentence tried to say. P
He's asking if the story about Häyhä is true or not. (I think)

I feel inclined to suspect that it is embellished but at least contains some nuggets of truth.


the general story is true and Häyhä does have as many kills as claimed with his rifle according to one newspaper article that also gives figures of 219 with a rifle and about same numbers with a submachine gun.
Häyhä however did not kept a personal score at the beginning of the war about 50 were counted by his comrades so that much is debatable at least.
He was shot through a cheek from a close range when their positions were overrun and company was ordered to retreat says the article which might explain why he wasn't killed by that explosive bullet.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#40 - 2014-03-24 18:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
reminds me of a story my old dad once told me many years ago ...a mate of his was stationed in india back in the day and had been there so long that he had actually learned the lingo really well .anyways long story short he was standing at a bus stop in London one day and these Asians chatting away in their lingo as they do but what they chatting they thought he wouldn't have any idea about anyways he apparently got so furious about the conversation they were having that he battered the pair of them big time !

and when my dad asked why he did it the reply was that they both hated all the English and generally slagging the country off big time .so he got the hump with them and gave them a good kicking .

Big smile I psml when me dad told me the story
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