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Why EVE University is a Pox Upon this Game
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Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#21 - 2011-11-13 03:27:19 UTC
Quote:
a lot of PvPers are just carebears anyway, hitting soft targets that rarely fight back.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-11-13 03:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Stella Dust wrote:
There's nothing wrong with carebear attitudes, if PvPers would actually want to fight real targets there would be no problem, but a lot of PvPers are just carebears anyway, hitting soft targets that rarely fight back.
Few people fight fairly. E-Uni doesn't. Gankers don't. Null folks don't. Everyone wants their advantage. I'm cool with that.

What I see is that E-Uni doesn't want to fight at all. This attitude is becoming increasingly prevalent. The E-Uni attitude is infectious.
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#23 - 2011-11-13 03:32:53 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Stella Dust wrote:
There's nothing wrong with carebear attitudes, if PvPers would actually want to fight real targets there would be no problem, but a lot of PvPers are just carebears anyway, hitting soft targets that rarely fight back.
Few people fight fairly. E-Uni doesn't. Gankers don't. Null folks don't. Everyone wants their advantage. I'm cool with that.

What I see is that E-Uni doesn't want to fight at all. This attitude is becoming increasingly prevalent. The E-Uni attitude is infectious.


Oh well.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Stella Dust
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-11-13 03:40:48 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Stella Dust wrote:
There's nothing wrong with carebear attitudes, if PvPers would actually want to fight real targets there would be no problem, but a lot of PvPers are just carebears anyway, hitting soft targets that rarely fight back.
Few people fight fairly. E-Uni doesn't. Gankers don't. Null folks don't. Everyone wants their advantage. I'm cool with that.

What I see is that E-Uni doesn't want to fight at all. This attitude is becoming increasingly prevalent. The E-Uni attitude is infectious.



EVE-Uni are neutral because they're a training corp, so how do you expect them to fight?

PvP is player/players Vs player/players, killing a mining barge in high-sec is not PvP, it's PvE because the only one that engages the aggressor is Concord (NPC).

Playing the market is not PvP, if it was then that would mean all WoW PvE servers were actually PvP, which they're not (added this because some people think pretty much anything is PvP).
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-11-13 03:45:01 UTC
Stella Dust wrote:
EVE-Uni are neutral because they're a training corp, so how do you expect them to fight?

They are far from being a training corp. You don't need 1200 people to train the ~300 newbies they have in corporation at any one time.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#26 - 2011-11-13 03:46:22 UTC
sweet sweet griefer tiers. if you want pew pew go fight someone who can shoot back.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-13 03:51:29 UTC
Denidil wrote:
sweet sweet griefer tiers. if you want pew pew go fight someone who can shoot back.

Highsec players can shoot back. Choosing not to shoot back is not the same as being unable to shoot back.

If someone shoots your Mackinaw, you can do something about it. Running to the forums and screaming at CCP to fix things so that you don't lose anymore Mackinaws is hardly the answer.
Lord Mandelor
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#28 - 2011-11-13 03:52:32 UTC
I saw Poetic had made the topic, and expected a link to a blog.
I was not dissapointed.



For some reason, I'm suddenly reminded that some animals eat their young.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#29 - 2011-11-13 03:54:10 UTC
IF you want to blame someone ... blame the Mo0 they CAUSED concord to be like it is now. The fact that so many eve players will drive a bus though the smallest hole is the reason for the SAFE high sec. Eve isn't darkfail and there are reasons for that, they want people to play who aren't psychopaths (not that they want to exclude them, they just want more).

Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Kalmanaka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-11-13 03:55:19 UTC
Eve is based on conflict. Whether it's fighting in ships, scamming, or competing in the market, it's conflict that makes the game what it is. Anything done to remove conflict, or make it possible to avoid conflict, ruins the game. Whats worse is that if you teach new players that they should be upset at a war, you're doing nothing but ruining the entire game experience for them. Instead of being excited at the idea of combat, they get all emo and whine about it. Instead of the game being fun, it brings misery and disappointment.

There's a thousand games out there with no real loss. A thousand games where you can die and magically reappear with all your stuff. Turning Eve into one of those games will destroy the entire concept of a "cold, dark, harsh place." I think with the recent changes to wardec immunity rules, Eve finally crossed that line where it can no longer claim to be a cold, dark, harsh place.
Dervinus
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#31 - 2011-11-13 04:05:43 UTC
Posting on my main like a bawsss. I actually agree with you on your observations regarding Eve Uni. I think thats why I (and 90% of the other ex-Eve Uni guys I know) left the Uni over the last few months. We all knew the rules were there to keep us safe and to keep Uni neutrality, but it was more a cultural risk adverseness that pushed a lot of us away.

I much prefer the TEST and Goons method of "here newbie, have rifter, go tackle something and be a hero" over the Eve Uni method of "Never undock, always be in a blob, dont talk in local etc." I found that a lot of Uni people took themselves WAYYYY too seriously when they are a training corp, not ELITEPVP.

This is not to say that I hate the Uni - I and many others learned a lot there and it really was great for learning the basics of the game.

o7 toonies
Stella Dust
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-11-13 04:10:44 UTC
Kalmanaka wrote:
Eve is based on conflict. Whether it's fighting in ships, scamming, or competing in the market, it's conflict that makes the game what it is. Anything done to remove conflict, or make it possible to avoid conflict, ruins the game. Whats worse is that if you teach new players that they should be upset at a war, you're doing nothing but ruining the entire game experience for them. Instead of being excited at the idea of combat, they get all emo and whine about it. Instead of the game being fun, it brings misery and disappointment..


I don't believe EVE Uni is teaching players to be upset at war. Have you considered it might be the fact that they are getting more people that are mainly just interested in PvE?

This game has a lot of PvE players and PvP players using alts in high-sec PvEing to fund their PvP characters. PvE players have been in the game at least since 2005 that I know of, I'm sure it's even longer than that.

From what I've seen over the years it the PvPers that only have themselves to blame (not the genuine PvPers but the carebear PvPers).



Kalmanaka wrote:

There's a thousand games out there with no real loss. A thousand games where you can die and magically reappear with all your stuff. Turning Eve into one of those games will destroy the entire concept of a "cold, dark, harsh place." I think with the recent changes to wardec immunity rules, Eve finally crossed that line where it can no longer claim to be a cold, dark, harsh place.


Yeah that's the myth, but like most myths it's not exactly true.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-11-13 04:24:34 UTC
Kalmanaka wrote:
Eve is based on conflict. Whether it's fighting in ships, scamming, or competing in the market, it's conflict that makes the game what it is. Anything done to remove conflict, or make it possible to avoid conflict, ruins the game. Whats worse is that if you teach new players that they should be upset at a war, you're doing nothing but ruining the entire game experience for them. Instead of being excited at the idea of combat, they get all emo and whine about it. Instead of the game being fun, it brings misery and disappointment.

The second page of my threads never fail to disappoint.

You're summary is on the nose, sir!
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-13 04:28:57 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Denidil wrote:
sweet sweet griefer tiers. if you want pew pew go fight someone who can shoot back.

Highsec players can shoot back. Choosing not to shoot back is not the same as being unable to shoot back.

If someone shoots your Mackinaw, you can do something about it. Running to the forums and screaming at CCP to fix things so that you don't lose anymore Mackinaws is hardly the answer.

Sorry I never flew a Mac and maybe I am missing something in the game mechanic so how exactly can they shoot back? I mean assuming the greifer is not a moron. Lesse spend about a week training a dessi alt on a trial account then suicide a mac and get concorded. The mac pilot gets KRs on the alt. Which is flying a cheap desi he is expecting to lose anyway. I really cannot qualify that act as being fighting back. Please if there is something I am missing explain it to me. I'm up for any new info.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-11-13 04:29:59 UTC
Quote:
I found that a lot of Uni people took themselves WAYYYY too seriously when they are a training corp, not ELITEPVP.

Kelduum. Irdalth (especially Irdalth). Silentbrick. Ubercado. Athanor (she's a future fascist candidate of New Eden.)
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-11-13 04:31:01 UTC
lol yet another poetic qq thread.

I cant imagine anyone crying as much as you do. How many whines it this today?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-11-13 04:31:37 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
Sorry I never flew a Mac and maybe I am missing something in the game mechanic so how exactly can they shoot back?
The Mackinaw can't shoot back ... but afterwards, you can do something about it. Go find the dude, fight his corp. Cause him and his buddies an equal amount of loss.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-13 04:32:38 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
How many wines it this today?
Two glasses of Merlot.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#39 - 2011-11-13 04:32:45 UTC
Why dont your blog link in your signature? Seems to me its better than annoying everyone by saying; "Its all here, go ahead and read, perhaps leave a comment?"

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Kalmanaka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-11-13 04:37:37 UTC
I was part of Eve-Uni many years ago. I joined The Graduates in '06 and took part in many Eve-Uni training ops. Things were so very different then. I remember setting up in 0.0 and giving the students a place to see what the null-sec game was all about. They still had the don't-undock rule but the attitude toward war was not anywhere near as harmful to new players as it is now. It seems that many people have forgotten that losing ships can be just as fun as killing them.

The biggest problem we face here is the distinct lack of older players that remember what Eve used to be about. I remember when Oveur stopped posting devblogs. It seemed he was one of the few at CCP that really knew what Eve was about, along with CCP Wrangler. Seeing him fade from the scene worried a lot of us. It took some searching but my google-fu is strong and I found an example of this.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1293
Quote:
Now, I'm also all for having travel times, they put in the essential sense of distance in the world of EVE. Distances increase regional prices and enable locational differenses, they make far away lands seem mysterious and sexy. This is of course ruined since it's very easy to travel the lengths of the universe (comparitively) than in other games.

But I'm also against the lack of danger and the awful boring times when you are just chugging along and nothing threatens you.


This sentiment is gone from eve and it seemed to begin it's death about the same time Oveur stopped posting. The more new players are trained to view war as a bad thing the more that sentiment will continue to have dirt poured on top of it's grave.