Wormholes

With all the CSM canidates giving their points of view on what should be changes and why, I was curious as to everyone elses feelings on the subject. As far as my own thoughts, I see it from two sides.


1) The environment we live in lends itself to big tank, armor brawlers. You have wormholes with mass limits, that spit you out no more than 5k meters from the mouth of the wormhole. This means any camped wormhole will be bubbled, with lots of tackle/webs/etc.. waiting. You need the big tanks armor t3s provide to simply survive the onslaught that is the enemy t3/guardian/caps typically on a wormhole. Shield/nano fleets won't survive simply entering the camped system, unless they are just completely inept.


2) The ships themselves are supposedly being "rebalanced" at some point in the future. Honestly though, I am not sure what you could change, other than making useless subs useful.

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

This is a very tricky question ... lets go for it....


DPS & Damage projection:

T3 seem to be balanced here, while in EFT blasterproteus have the best dps of all, they get outperformed by Laserlegions & Railproteus in damage projection, or outperformed by alpha from artylokis, i'd say there is no real change nessescary, maybe a deeper look to damage projection of Missiles ?

Tank:

Well this is complicated, while the EHP can almost be equal in case of EHP th proteus outperforms ALL T3s out there and reaches carrier ehp levels with shiny fits, i'd say this needs a rebalance, compared to lokis or Jammtengus, legions got almost equal but less EHP than proteus
Now if we take a look to most-used-damage and resistances, the Proteus has the best armor resistanes by default vs most wh setups with proteus as maindamagedealers, of course some alliances use laser/hamlegions and lokis but i find the proteus as DPS boat very common, I'd like to see more variations

Utility:

Neutlegions are probably the most useful ones to handle hostiles caps, lokis with dual web are a must have in any fleet while the longerpoint of proteus is not that important in wormholebrawls, however it has it's uses to catch the running capital at longer ranges
Jammtengus become useless with increasing numbers or hostile triage on the field.
Legions however have the most utility midslots for damps/remote eccm etc and outperform any other t3 around there for armor fleets if you need a ship for this role while dealing decent dps and having a huge tank

All together this section allready seems to be very balanced and doesnt really needs changes


So if anybody asks me what needs to be changed, I'd recommend in changing tank & dps/dmg application of Proteus & Legion, Tank from Lokis ( VERY small buff in raw armor hitpoints maybe ? not sure here though), keep jammtengus as they are for "smallscalepvp" Proteus needs a small hp nerf, legion might stay as it is with hitpoints

Signature :

T3 signatures are fine, however sigtanking lokis are broken if you gonna fight dreads with them, ~45-50sig with 900 m/s orbit and 130k ehp still dealing the same amount of dps as any other armor loki needs some kind of rebalance
However the sigs of ALL T3s can be handeled with enough TP in fleet, if Fleetsetups lack in them nobody should complain about bad damage projection

Other:

T3 ships offer too much for a single ship, their only disadvantage is skillpointloss on death, i rather see something else instead, maybe add additional effects for subsystems if used in specific wormholes ?
Costs for a T3 is fine, they could be a little bit more expensive though but it looks very balanced for me

Shield only section / Pulsar:

Seems very balanced for me, but i never lived in a high class puslar and may lack some experience here, so i rather would like to see feedback of more experienced pulsar inhibitants


Summary:

CCP allready did a goot job in balancing them and only small changes are needed, we must keep in mind a T3 is our daily life in wspace, we use them for everything out there and too hard nerfs will change wspace entirely

I don't care what they do as long as the change the t3 vs t3 fight a game of who fucks up first

I may get flamed but here I go.

Why is the skill point loss on death necessary. Battleships can do most of what t3's can at a fraction of the cost and with some of the love they have seen. T3 fleets outside of wspace are not as popular and with the already greatly inflated cost it's another thing pushing risk adverse people away from them.

Sure there are some t3 fits that can let you be a cruiser with a ridiculous tank but only at a 1.5 to 2bil price tag. Just buy a cap D:

I'd like to see the skill point loss removed or mitigated in some way. Hey Ccp loves new skills, memory backup 15% / 20% less skill point loss in circumstances where you may loose them (could be low rank and apply only to t3 or higher and apply to pod loss when u forget to upgrade) . Or add this to the strategic cruiser skill to make it useful.

Excuse sp and grammar, on a phone.
Jari

Just make all of the subs viable choices and youre done.
the current T3 fits don't need a nerf or any major overhaul, it would just be nice if there were more than 1-2 viable fits for each T3.

get drone prots viable, scanning legions, range lokis and all the other random subs that most people have never heard of viable and you'll make me happy.

Reserved.

I'll have a No-Local.com article on T3's sometime later today, to include this discussion and link to this thread, as well as my personal thoughts on the T3 and "change"...

As others have said, T3s don't need a nerf, on the contrary, a lot of the unused sub systems need a buff to increase their use. People should accept that T3 are the best ship for most wormhole pvp and nerfing them to make HACs the new dominant meta will only harm our way of life.

...But it is boring to agree with everyone so here is a random idea for all to enjoy:

1. Remove all rig slots
2. Buff ship and subsystem stats to compensate
3. Allow T3 to switch subs and modules without the use of a mobile depot

I could accept a SLIGHT nerf to tank and dps if T3s could do the above.

If T2 ships become a better choice than T3 ships for wormhole space, when do you guys invasion using your T3 ships?

If T3 tanks are significantly nerfed, how would that affect the issue of dread blapping?

Should all ships be balanced around a pure tank setup that very few people actually use in fleet fights?

If the mechanics of wormhole space is the reason for the dominant T3 meta, should the ships be changed or the environment?

Fights sometimes happen in sites, would you be happy that you are no longer able to take said fights because your ships can't tank the sleeper let alone the hostile dreads?

Why is it okay for nano fleets to be king in k-space but bad for T3s to be king in W-space?

What changes would need to be made to wormhole space after the T3 nerf drastically reduces pve income?

If T3 fleets are no longer viable, should CCP reimburse all T3 related skill points so newer, low sp players can dump the sp into whatever the new dominant meta is?

Fixed

Nerf the tank a tad and make all subsystems useful in some way shape or form. If you want a good tanked medium sized ship that doesn't cost SP when you lose it I suggest a Command Ship (unless there are blap Dreads around.. then we go back to T3s).

In short, with their current cost of Skill Points I think they should have perks above the T2. Why would you nerf them to lower or same as T2 with that unique cost they have? No one would use them if you did so (and as a indirect result Nano Ribbon prices would plummet because of less demand, severely damaging lower class WHs).