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Combat Boosters - eve online's neflected child.... :'(

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Lyonic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-03-18 18:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyonic
Combat boosters are basically drugs that your pilot takes to gain a temporary benefit. Each of these boosters may cause any of four potential side-effects, though skills may reduce the chance of this and also reduce the severity of these side effects. All of the boosters except synth are illegal in high security space, meaning that there is a good chance they will be confiscated at any given gate, there, and the pilot found carrying them will be slapped with a fine and sec status hit.




  • Blue Pill: increases shield boost amount, allowing a shield-boosting ship to sustain more damage.

  • Crash: reduces explosion radius of missiles, allowing them to inflict more damage to smaller targets.

  • Drop: improves tracking speed of turret weapons, allowing them to inflict more damage to smaller targets.

  • Exile: increases armor repair amount, allowing an armor-repairing ship to sustain more damage.

  • Frentix: increases the optimal range of turrets, allowing them to inflict more damage to farther-away targets.

  • Mindflood: increases maximum capacitor amount, which also improves capacitor recharge as a side effect.

  • Sooth Sayer: increases the falloff range of turrets, allowing them to inflict more damage to targets within falloff range, to farther distances.

  • X-Instinct: reduces signature radius, decreasing the amount of damage that the ship will take from most weapons.



Boosters fit into "slots" in a manner similar to implants. If a booster of a particular slot is already active, another one cannot be used until the old booster wears off. The boosters sorted by slot are:

Slot 1: Blue Pill, Exile, Mind Flood, and X-Instinct.

Slot 2: Drop, Frentix, and Sooth Sayer.

Slot 3: Crash.



So that's the boosters you get and the benefits, that's what slots they go in, now comes the tears. Basically all you have to do is look at the slots to realise how stupid have only 1 option, a missile option, for slot 3 is just... yeah... Then when you look at things like frentix or sooth sayer...

Sooth Sayer: reduced shield boost amount, reduced armor repair amount, reduced velocity, reduced turret optimal range.
Frentix: reduced shield boost amount, reduced armor hit points, reduced velocity, reduced turret tracking speed.

Just really awful side effect to side effect ratio.

X-Instinct: reduced shield hit points, reduced armor hit points, reduced missile explosion velocity, reduced turret falloff.

Again pretty useless benefit to side effect ratio.

What I propose is a total revamp of the crappy boosters, add in more boosters, utilize all of the slots better, and make them either easy to transport, or harder to confiscate.



NEW BOOSTER IDEAS

Why not expand the realm of your thinking with some crazy boosters that alter things you would not consider..

Skill Training boosters ( 5 kinds, offers a bonus to the stat ) : pretty realistic to say that boosters can increase perception, willpower, charisma, intelligence or memory. Side effect? cripple combat/mining abilities so people can get more bang when hey are not pew pew or mining. Also, increase the duration to 24 hours.

Mining Boosters: I am not a miner but I would think a bonus to yield or activation time would be pretty nice. Side effect? Make them more vulnerable or hold less cargo. Or how about less agile/slower to warp. woot woot pew opertunities..

Velocity Booster: but wait what about quafe zero? blow it out your ***. I was a craftable booster than is solely for velocity.. none of this 5% dribble. Side effects? well whatever u want, how about sig radius? agility? etc

Tanky boosters: Give a bonus to resistances. Side effect? how about reduces total hp, velocity blah blah blah, whatever I don't care.

Salvaging Boosters: Increases salvaging % or activation time. Side effect? makes you slow, less agile and vulnerable.


Drone Damage Boosters: does what it says on the tin, side effects, less hp tracking w/e


Trading boosters: get a better % on your deals ( I don't trade a lot XD ) side effect? market timer, system changing timer...


Agility Boosters: better agility. side effects, speed, sig radius etc.



I don't know, that's only like a few ideas of a huge content implication that could be added to something that currently could be so much more. This could be the start of something awesome, I mean, when was the last time boosters got looked at?

What do you think?
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2 - 2014-03-18 18:58:50 UTC
Moving this from General Discussion to features and Ideas discussion. Also removing some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-18 20:33:51 UTC
I'd like more boosters. This seems cool.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#4 - 2014-03-18 20:37:05 UTC
As implemented, boosters are too expensive and require too much training to be useful for anyone except supercap pilots, who want every edge they can get.

You can either view this as intended, or see a new gameplay feature that could be expanded to everyone. This would mean a complete overhaul of the system from harvesting to injecting. It's not a bad idea really, but I don't support it. IMO, it's too minor of a feature to be worth that much work. I'd rather have devs working on things like lowsec, sov mechanics, ship balance and so on.

Overhaul Dscan!
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-03-18 20:42:16 UTC
I would totally support a drug revamp. Drugs allways seemed like a nice little addition and I would love to see them getting a somewhat deeper and more complex system.

IIRC, CCP mentioned some plans on a Fanfest (don't know which one though) aswell, but guess they never fiddled it out. :(
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2014-03-18 20:54:58 UTC
fleshing out drugs seems like an alright idea in principal

on the note of nerfing the sid effects tho, i'd rather drugs dnt become another 'must have' for PvP. significant side effects need to remain a good balancing factor/deterrent.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ella Echerie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-19 00:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ella Echerie
I think boosters are in an ok place at the moment, in terms of mechanics and price/availability/usefulness.

I agree it would be nice to see some new ones; I'd probably like to see crash move to slot 2, quafe zero and x-inst moved to slot 3, then add some more slot 3's with nav stats as the theme, ie agility / AB speed boost. Perhaps some ewar or logi somewhere although these don't really need help at the moment.

I strongly believe they should be COMBAT boosters though, not mining/salvaging etc, and remain restricted in HiSec.
Lyonic
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-03-19 00:28:10 UTC
The thing is, the meta of the game has chanced so many times and I would say boosters are pretty much in need of an update. I like the idea of ewar booster for sure. The thing is though I would say its an underused thing in the game that should be opened up to more people.

I think there should be non combat boosters also, thing that can help with everything else in the game. Would mean more boosters to make/sell and more people using them when they need that extra bit out their stuff... Without spending billions of isk on implants or faction gear.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9 - 2014-03-19 00:43:11 UTC
Lyonic wrote:
The thing is, the meta of the game has chanced so many times and I would say boosters are pretty much in need of an update. I like the idea of ewar booster for sure. The thing is though I would say its an underused thing in the game that should be opened up to more people.

I think there should be non combat boosters also, thing that can help with everything else in the game. Would mean more boosters to make/sell and more people using them when they need that extra bit out their stuff... Without spending billions of isk on implants or faction gear.


that sounds like boosters becoming the must have thing.

i dnt mind more ppl having uses for boosters, and having accessibility to boosters, but i think boosters in themselves should be very small niche items.

the niche specific boost should be less powerful than the general unspecific draw backs of boosters. so the situations where a booster is more of an advantage than disadvantage are a niche in themselves. Otherwise it becomes like trying to PvP with non-faction ammo and T1 mods. Doable, but at a general disadvantage against everyone everywhere.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Spr09
Abyssal Echoes
Invidia Gloriae Comes
#10 - 2014-03-19 02:50:29 UTC
Boosters in general just need to be overhauled, adding more of them that I don't see any point in using on a subcap ship really doesn't add anything to the game.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#11 - 2014-03-19 03:44:50 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fleshing out drugs seems like an alright idea in principal

on the note of nerfing the sid effects tho, i'd rather drugs dnt become another 'must have' for PvP. significant side effects need to remain a good balancing factor/deterrent.



The best change to boosters over all would be a removal of their random penalties and transfer them to flat penalties that always apply at a slightly lower severity. Nothing else in the game is random so why are drugs so crippling?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2014-03-19 15:45:34 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fleshing out drugs seems like an alright idea in principal

on the note of nerfing the sid effects tho, i'd rather drugs dnt become another 'must have' for PvP. significant side effects need to remain a good balancing factor/deterrent.



The best change to boosters over all would be a removal of their random penalties and transfer them to flat penalties that always apply at a slightly lower severity. Nothing else in the game is random so why are drugs so crippling?


hopefully so they come with a significant downside.

ppl dnt take T1 ammo because faction is always better. and ppl dnt always use T2 ammo every second, because the disadvantages are quite harmful, but ppl switch to T2 ammo when they find themselves in a situation that would make it an advantage.

-if u make boosters a general advantage, then there is no reason not to take them every fight. just like faction ammo.

-however, if they are generally a disadvantage, but give a boost in a niche specific area, u can wait until ur in that niche specific situation and then take them and be rewarded with a performance boost that serves u well in that niche specific situation. Like T2 ammo.

even under those circumstances, i can see boosters being a 'must bring along' item. something i want to avoid.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Notorious Fellon
#13 - 2014-03-19 16:43:25 UTC
Yes to fleshing out drugs.

Need more of a range (in cost and skill requirements).

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
paritybit
Stimulus
#14 - 2014-03-19 19:00:33 UTC
I give this a thumbs up for the first half (boosters need an overhaul) and a wavering thumb for the second half (specifics). I'd rather not see training boosted as the result of a booster.
Stacey Starwolf
The Nyan Cat Pirates
#15 - 2014-03-19 19:50:32 UTC
As a drug user and an alliance manufacturer I approve of a combat booster boost. Maybe I overdid it a bit, but here are my ideas about how I think combat boosters should be:

You can only use 1 booster at the same time. And a no to Synth and all the side effects. That means also a no to those silly Neurotoxin implants no one uses. All combat boosters should be illegal of course.

Change the Biology skill into:

Biology
Multiplier 1, required Science 1
The science of life and of living organisms, and how chemicals affect them.
10% Bonus to attribute booster duration per skill level.

Change the Neurotoxin Recovery skill into:

Drug Consumption
Multiplier 5, required Science 4
Skill required to consume attribute boosters and stay focused during their effects.
5% bonus to combat booster bonus per skill level

lvl 1 for Standard
lvl 3 for Improved
lvl 5 for Strong

Change the Neurotoxin Control skill into:

Smuggling
Multiplier 2, required Social 4
You got me, can't we make some sort of arrangement?
Reduces the penalty when caught by customs officers by 10% per level to 50% at lvl 5

Change the strengths of the boosters:

5% Standard (6.25% at lvl 5)
10% Improved (12.5% at lvl 5)
15% Strong (18.75% at lvl 5)

Defenitely more types:

Turrets
Turret Tracking bonus, Turret Falloff bonus, Turret Range bonus, Turret Capacitor bonus

Missiles
Missile Flight time bonus, Missile Explosion Radius reduction, Missile Signature bonus, Bomb Deployment time bonus

Navigation
Afterburner Duration bonus, Microwarpdrive duration bonus, Ship Agility bonus, Ship Signature Radius reduction

Other
Shield Boost bonus, Armor Repair bonus, Sensor Strength bonus, Targeting Range bonus

To prevent the 'must have' boosters I decided no shield and armor hitpoints or resist bonuses, no remote repair bonus, no flat damage, speed or capacitor bonus and no e-war bonus. Definitely no pve bonuses, those players need to stay focused on their red crosses and asteroids. And most certainly a big no no to anything skill training related, that is very sensitive stuffs.


My ideas about producing combat boosters

Booster production should of course stay very illegal and done in 0.4 or lower and I like the different gas types, they are colorful and nice. I would make a gas type for each booster strength though and make the reactions easier. That means a standard amount of materials for 1 pill trough several reactions.

Make a General Storage a silo and for all boosters a normal Biochemical Reactor Array.

I also despise those stupid hacking sites with their rats and neutralizers. Either go combat or hacking site, but not both. Best would be to have 50 run bpc's and reactions that can be obtained at the pirate LP stores.

I also wish you could make those little Narcotics thingies, like Vittoc, Frentix and Blue Pills and make drug production and smuggling worth while by trading them on the highsec market.


Unfamiliar with boosters?
http://staceystarwolf.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/action-report-5-using-combat-boosters/
http://staceystarwolf.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/action-report-6-producing-combat-boosters/
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#16 - 2014-03-19 20:10:55 UTC
+1 Oft neglected, I too would like to see them a little more relavent.
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#17 - 2014-03-19 21:22:18 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
As implemented, boosters are too expensive and require too much training to be useful for anyone except supercap pilots, who want every edge they can get.

You can either view this as intended, or see a new gameplay feature that could be expanded to everyone. This would mean a complete overhaul of the system from harvesting to injecting. It's not a bad idea really, but I don't support it. IMO, it's too minor of a feature to be worth that much work. I'd rather have devs working on things like lowsec, sov mechanics, ship balance and so on.


Are we playing the same game? Me and a majority of the players I have played with use combat boosters in frig and cruiser size combat. Exile is pretty standard for active armor repping pilots. Standard boosters only cost a couple million and are readily available in low sec and null.

The only thing that was expensive was the secondary side effect skill. But considering the huge impact these can have in pvp, especially solo pvp, a few days to train them to four is no big deal.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#18 - 2014-03-19 21:25:44 UTC
Also, absolutely no on making them legal in high sec.

In order to produce boosters you have to live in low or null therefore you have to have friends/corps that can provide security. Hence this being an MMO and part of the beauty of Eve is that you have to rely on other people for things. Moving boosters to high sec would ruin the challenge of producing/ obtaining them.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-03-19 21:49:14 UTC
I think boosters should really be dramatically lowered in duration and then the amount manufactured per run increased proportionately. This way you have to keep up with your boost, you can change your boosts over time, the drawbacks wouldn't last as long, and the boosters would be more affordable to try out for the average pilot.

Due to the nature of eve, you can always overcome the boosts of the booster with numbers. But there are always people who will use any and everything possible to increase their capabilities.

Using a booster now you just set it and forget it. But if it was reduced to 2.5min(5min with skills) some people will have trouble keeping them up AND you'll have a much greater probability to end up with drawbacks during combat instead of using a booster and getting drawbacks and just podding yourself or coming back later until you get a 1 hour boost with no drawbacks.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#20 - 2014-03-19 23:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
What I would like to see:
6 booster slots:
Slot 1 Boosters that help you tank
Slot 2 Boosters that make guns more effective
Slot 3 Boosters that make missiles more effective
Slot 4: Boosters that make drones more effective
Slot 5: Boosters that generally make your ship more effective
Slot 6: Boosters that make you suck less

Slot 3 would gain a velocity and flight time pills to fill in the hole missile boosters currently are missing that gun boosters have. It would also gain an explosion velocity boosters.
Slot 4 would gain a drone optimal, falloff, tracking, and speed boosters.
Slot 5 would gain the mindflood and X-Instinct booster from slot 1. Slot 5 would also gain an capacitor recharge, warp speed, and ship agility boosters
Slot 6: Would gain an overheating, Max targets, targeting range, and scan res boosters.

Final outlook:
Slot 1: Blue Pill, Exile (Shield/Armor boost amount)
Slot 2: Drop, Frenix, Soothsayer (Turret tracking, optimal, and falloff)
Slot 3: Crash (explosion radius) + missile velocity, flight time, and explosion velocity boosters.
Slot 4: +Drone optimal, falloff, tracking, and speed boosters
Slot 5: Mindflood, X-Instinct (cap amount and sig radius), + capacitor recharge, ship agility and warp speed boosters.
Slot 6: +Overheating, max targets, targeting range, and scan resolution boosters.

Totally combat focused. I think it goes without saying that there needs to be a complete reevaluation of side effects and their percentage nerf for all boosters. Some boosters have no harmful side effects. Others have crippling side effects that make the booster too risky to use. Do a full balancing pass to make sure everything makes sense and all boosters are useful. Also, reevaluate the skills involved.

Most of the boosters are things that you can't get with fleet links. The reason why there isn't a velocity, warp disruption range, sensor strength, resistances, mining bonuses, etc. is that I think it would be bad to have a booster to replace these functions. Social should typically offer better options than solo. Social means fleet bonuses should give unique, more powerful, and less negative side effect boosts. You could have the boosters for the fleet link bonuses. They would just have to be less powerful and have some pretty interesting side effects as a penalty for going solo.

As far as your Skill training boosters... Absolutely not. CCP needs to stop rewarding afk and risk adverse players with better skill training (SP/hr). Attribute implants are bad enough that CCP should have already removed them. Your skill training booster continues these bad practices by encouraging players to take risk adverse avenues or go afk for greater SP reward.

As far as using boosters: You should be able to use any booster in any security of space. If you want an RP reason CONCORD finally realized they cause no lasting harm and therefore has allowed them in highsec. The real reason is this will cause demand to rise as carebears and such will all want to use them, they will be easier to transport, and you will be able to actually contract boosters (the papercut that is super annoying in null and lowsec.)

Sourcing the boosters: This means supply and demand are all going to go up which means more isk for those gas mining and actually producing the boosters. I think they should also be produce-able in low and nullsec stations. This would be a great boost to low and nullsec industry with the rise in demand. CCP needs to pretty much remove/redo POSes anyway. So getting booster production off POSes is another step closer to that happening.
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