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Sentry drones or heavies?
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hwhiskey
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-13 00:26:20 UTC
I've been flying gallente boats around lately, and I've had a great deal if fun with the myrm and the vexor. I'd like to get into an ishtar as well as a domi in the near future to run low sec and nullsec exploration, to be assisted by my alt acocunt.

Currently I have the basic PvE drone skills, T2 light and medium drones, gallente drone spec to 4, drone support skills and drone interfacing all to 4. I currently have both sentry drone interfacing and heay drone operation to level 3, and I'm unsure which would I should be looking to take to 5 first.

A lot of the fits I've seen around the forums seem to favor sentry drones over heavies, although I have seen some people advocating heavies, citing that at omnis allow heavies to project very close to their paper dps. Playing with pyfa, I see slightly higher DPS from Ogre IIs than Garde IIs, and I've heard that Gardes have difficulties hitting things closer than about 10km.

Which should I focus on training first? What exactly are the pros and cons of each?
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#2 - 2011-11-13 00:39:50 UTC
Generally speaking, people will use Sentries because they elimate the travel time that heavies have getting to a target. The folks who use heavies do it when they go AFK (such as when using a Rattlesnake) as time is not the issue (since they are sleeping, watching TV, or making breakfast), but being able to chase down any target is.
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-11-13 02:59:23 UTC
t2 sentries are awesome, especially with an ishtar. since i got t2 sentries about 8 months ago, i havent used any other drone except fighters,

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2011-11-13 03:07:56 UTC
With Sentries you need to sit in one spot, or return to that spot to recover them.

With Heavies, you can travel around and call them in when needed. And they can chase a target down, always be in optimal, even if you have to fly off to 100 km.

IMO... Sentries are kinda nice...But Heavies are the real deal.
hwhiskey
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-13 04:27:59 UTC
Is using sentries vs. heavies really just a matter of personal preference? And do different drone boats tend to use one or the other dependent on the ship?
hwhiskey
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-13 05:53:37 UTC
Any other input? My training queue opens up in an hour or two and I still don't know which to go for Sad
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2011-11-13 06:29:03 UTC
hwhiskey wrote:
Is using sentries vs. heavies really just a matter of personal preference? And do different drone boats tend to use one or the other dependent on the ship?


Sentries apply damage instantly at range. They also do more damage if you rig for it (sentry damage augmentors).

Heavies are slow and have trouble hitting smaller ships period (sentries can at least do it at range).

For most PvE purposes, sentries are better. The exception here is against Angels.

For PvP, it really depends.

The Ishtar is pretty much a sentry boat. The Gila is more for heavies. The Dominix goes either way.

Does that help?
hwhiskey
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-13 06:52:51 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
hwhiskey wrote:
Is using sentries vs. heavies really just a matter of personal preference? And do different drone boats tend to use one or the other dependent on the ship?


Sentries apply damage instantly at range. They also do more damage if you rig for it (sentry damage augmentors).

Heavies are slow and have trouble hitting smaller ships period (sentries can at least do it at range).

For most PvE purposes, sentries are better. The exception here is against Angels.

For PvP, it really depends.

The Ishtar is pretty much a sentry boat. The Gila is more for heavies. The Dominix goes either way.

Does that help?


Yes that was very informative, I didn't realize that only sentries have the option of increasing damage with rigs. I plan on flying ishtars and domis over a gila, so sentries it is. I appreciate the input
Yin Utada
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-11-13 09:39:13 UTC
Imo sentries are boring and not practical. I've given it some thought in the past as well, and I've concluded that if I were to train for the T2 harder hitting drones I'd go for heavies.


I guess it depends on preference and playstyle.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-13 13:26:30 UTC
Yin Utada wrote:
I guess it depends on preference and playstyle.



This.

I am in a similar situation. I will have my Ishtar in a few days. After that I am training Sentry drone interfacing 5. So I will have Sentry 2's first. But immediately after that I am training Heavy drones 5. So I will only have sentry 2's for 17 days before Heavies are done.

Both have their uses I tend to use sentries more than heavies, at least in missions in my domi. I do you heavies in missiones where I have to move to gates, since they can follow me as i slow boat it from gate to gate.

With a faster ship such as the Ishtar, there are many other tactics that can be employed. You could drop sentries, and then kite the rats in such a way that you keep them in your sentry drones optimal (So the rats dont end up too close).

Depending on the ship flying back for your sentries can sometimes be faster than waiting for your heavies to return.


Either way, if you are serious about drones, you are gonna want both IMO.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2011-11-13 16:08:56 UTC
Yin Utada wrote:
Imo sentries are boring and not practical. I've given it some thought in the past as well, and I've concluded that if I were to train for the T2 harder hitting drones I'd go for heavies.


I guess it depends on preference and playstyle.


Not entirely. T2 heavies are a significant step up from T1 -- but T2 sentries are night and day compared to T1. If you ever use sentries -- even if you usually use heavies -- Sentry Drone Interfacing should be the priority for its higher benefit per training time.

But anyone who is seriously anguishing on the decision clearly needs both anyhow.
Onlyasandwich
NewsRadio
#12 - 2011-11-13 17:12:55 UTC
I posted this same dilemma a few months back. I have now trained T2 heavies and sentries. If you are flying dedicated drone boats, just go ahead and get both of them. Even as a sentry user, I really appreciate my T2 heavies when I need them. I can now do Angel missions with good efficiency and have a better time in missions that require slowboating to a gate.

If I were only allowed to train one, I would definitely train sentries, though. Sure, both heavies and sentries go up in damage quite a bit with T2 versions, but sentries also gain more applied dps through increased range, something T2 buffs quite substantially. Being able to field gardes at standard mission engagement ranges rather than just out past my nose has made all the difference in the world.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#13 - 2011-11-13 17:30:03 UTC
A one example of domi and t2 sentries:
Haven't tested but you might be able to fit even 425mm's instead of 350's after the patch, and since the fit is cap stable without guns / repper this one will perma run as well if hybrid cap reduction goes as planned.... Cool
Also t2 drone stuff is coming; so training T2 sentries & heavies now might not be a bad idea at all.

[Dominix, L4 sentry]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2011-11-13 19:37:39 UTC
Ogre II heavy drones do the most damage of any drones, but are slow to travel. They are great for encounters where the target isn't that far away, like Angel missions or PvP. They work well on any ship capable of using them.

T2 drones are a huge improvement over T1. Garde II do the most damage of sentries, but have a fairly limited range. They work best on drone boats with a couple of Omnidirectional Tacking Links, and are of limited use without those. All sentries, even Amarr, are useful.

Both Heavy Drones 5 and Sentry Drones 5 are worth training if you are an avid drone user. I'd probably recommend heavies first over sentries, as though slow, heavies are more adaptable while training for sentries.
Cypher Decypher
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2011-11-13 20:14:50 UTC
The Ishtar is most definitely a sentry boat, not least because of the Drone Control Range bonus that the HAC skill gives you.

Fitted with triple ODL's (Fed Navy preferably) and two T1 Sentry Damage rigs, Garde II's can put nearly 540dps out to 52km *optimal*, with 30% better tracking than eg. large auto's on a faction-fitted Machariel. Warden II's get a ridiculous 130km optimal with 400+dps, but crappy tracking. They're great for sniping long distance rats.

It's worth noting that the only drone rig giving a bonus to damage is explicitly for sentries. No similar rig exists for combat drones. Drone rigs do gimp your CPU pretty badly however, so fitting a really wicked Ishtar takes some skilling.

I used a sentry Ishtar exclusively in Gal space for L4 missions. It's a lot of fun to fly, and gets through them pdq. I was never able to run L4's against Serpentis as fast with T2 heavies in the same ship.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-11-14 00:14:37 UTC
Well it's debatable (As seen by the above posts), Sentrys are nice for L4's and maybe L5's in a Ishtar/Rattler, and maybe in pvp on certain situations.

On the other hand, for exploration I'd go Heavy's, Sentry's mean you have to sit there and in exploration usually you want to blitz the sites, and just going for the overseer, Heavy's let you start moving toward gate's quicker and overseers/faction spawns while taking them down, hence increasing your profits.
But on some exploration sites you have to destroy everything anyway just to handle the DPS so Sentry's may be better there
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-14 11:26:46 UTC
hwhiskey wrote:
Currently I have the basic PvE drone skills, T2 light and medium drones, gallente drone spec to 4, drone support skills and drone interfacing all to 4. I currently have both sentry drone interfacing and heay drone operation to level 3, and I'm unsure which would I should be looking to take to 5 first.


Well...

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet but drone interfacing to V would be a logical first step - because it gives a huge bonus to your sentry drones, your heavy drones AND your light and medium drones.

Once you have that sorted out you can start to think which you'd like to do first T2 heavies or T2 sentries. If you are a serious drone user you will need both as they are situational, in some situations you use T2 heavies and in others T2 sentries. (though as has been pointed out the increase in effectiveness from T1 heavies to T2 heavies is good, but for sentries it's spectacular.)


Patience ... Cool
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-14 14:06:44 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
hwhiskey wrote:
Currently I have the basic PvE drone skills, T2 light and medium drones, gallente drone spec to 4, drone support skills and drone interfacing all to 4. I currently have both sentry drone interfacing and heay drone operation to level 3, and I'm unsure which would I should be looking to take to 5 first.


Well...

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet but drone interfacing to V would be a logical first step - because it gives a huge bonus to your sentry drones, your heavy drones AND your light and medium drones.

Once you have that sorted out you can start to think which you'd like to do first T2 heavies or T2 sentries. If you are a serious drone user you will need both as they are situational, in some situations you use T2 heavies and in others T2 sentries. (though as has been pointed out the increase in effectiveness from T1 heavies to T2 heavies is good, but for sentries it's spectacular.)


Patience ... Cool


this is exactly what's I have done. I was looking at all three skills, all at 4. Trying to decide what order to do them in considering they were each 17 days. I decided on drone interfacing 5 first as the bonus would benefit all of my drones, from jobs in my pvp ishkur to my faction sentries in my domi (they are pricy but worth it while waiting for T2)
I likegirls
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#19 - 2011-11-15 01:17:00 UTC
Sentries are the best. I used to multi box a bunch of toons at once in drone boats or carriers. All rigged with sentry damage rigs and fit with drone link augmentors.

All assisted to an Ishtar using a couple of target painters and a fast firing gun so that the sentry drones would keep shooting what I wanted to focus everyone's fire and kill all the frigs before the frigs got to close.

Everything freakin' melted. No reload. Alpha. Everything died before my drones would take any real damage.

I am a huge carebear!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-15 11:24:14 UTC
Sentries, period.

There is no Bob.

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