Market Discussions

Greetings fellow traders of EVE,

For anyone interested in the basics of station trading I've salvaged my station trading guide from the now defunct podlogs and recreated on http://mistressjita.blogspot.co.uk/

Hope you find it useful!

Y.

Good guide, as a newbie trader I am always open for new information that helps in every bit when trading :)

One thing I noticed in your guide were the trade hubs suggestion and the damn 0.01 ISK undercutting.
You should add that any newbie looking to start station trading, one should not start in Jita IV-IV unless you can babysit your orders all day long because of the 0.01 ISK wars, If one doesn't have a insane amount of time to deal with constantly changing orders, setting shop in a smaller trade hubs is a better idea, there's less volume and less competition, pros and cons, it's up to one to choose.

I suggest having Broker relations and accounting to V, along with a decent standing to get the last squeeze out of your ISK,because most traders have everything maxed and they can operate on razor thin margins,potentially kicking you out of the market if they so desire.

Also, 0.01 ISK wars, you will get tired of this ****. One could aggresively underprice the next 0.01 but I find that sometimes people stop and get the message, sometimes you get tired of that **** and move on or let him get the orders because its a bot or a no lifer, or you or the bot spend their remaining time of the day in a constant circlejerk stronger than the gravity in the entrance of a black hole.

Other than that, good guide for newbies!

Thank you! A good read- almost makes me want to station trade!

I hear this stated a lot but haven't seen any evidence this is really the case. Target customers don't generally care much about the price unless the margin is extreme, so "turning an unattractive price into an attractive price" only really works if you are targeting traders. A regular customer will buy what he needs when he needs it as long as the price is reasonably fair. The job of a trader is to ensure they are always the next order in the queue, which means 0.01 isk is as good as any other amount.

The other issue is that other traders think in the same way as you. If you are willing to nuke the margins into a loss to clear your stock, chances are other traders are too. So you undercut by a huge price an another trader 0.01 isks that price. Now you are still not the next order, so the margin has dropped and you still aren't selling.

Really there is no "one best way", both methods have their merits, its about choosing which tactic to deploy and when. But for the general trader, keeping your price as the best price by any amount does the job fine, and 0.01 isk increases the longevity of the margin.

That's assuming that a good protion of traders are unwilling to sell at a lower price. It's also assuming people don;t see the drop as an indication of the tred and put even more effort into clearing stock. If you are willing to drop the price, chances are other marketeer will, and the players who need to read a guide are unlikely to have to capital to forcefully flush another trader from the market.

Of course, the huge margins often come with sales volume issues and a lot of competition, so pushing down the margin can be a plus, but in general, I've not seen any increase in sales between 0.01 isking and deep cutting. Either way the same people (and bots) continue to undercut you at the same rate and sales come along at the same rate.

Hmm, well I can;t say I've ever really seen that except with products with inflated margins to begin with. And that doesn't reflect in market history trends either. Most buyers aren't traders, so they don't buy more because the price is slightly lower. Being the next in the queue is the only thing that secures you a sale when a buyer comes along.

Yeah... and that's what I mean. When a consumer wants a product, they head over to a station and they buy it. So deep undercutting doesn't encourage the consumers to buy more. They will buy when they need the product, and if you are the best price at the time, your item will be the one that sells. How much you undercut by has no bearing on that.

And if you are selling 3 drakes, he might let it slide. But you have to remember your main competition is people exactly like you. If you are willing to drop 200k/unit they probably are too. All they do is then undercut your new price by 0.01, now you still had only 5 minutes of exposure but the price is lower. So now you can 0.01 or deep undercut again and the same happens again and again until you are running at a loss. And if you are station trading, you won't be able to go as low as a manufacturer, so some people can even undercut you while you are already at a loss.

When I'm in a busy hub and need to push stock, rather than deep undercutting, I'll just split stacks so I'm 0.01 isking 2 or 3 stacks of the same item. Now I'll have the exposure of 2 or 3 traders without having to give up profit margins prematurely.

As for who is in the mix with me in any given market. Let's say there are 10 people in the mix with me. So it goes like this:

People like me: 2 - I get undercut right back.
People who care about the margins: 8 - they wait for me to sell out.

So I have eliminated 80% of my competition. That is good, right?

I know my numbers are arbitrary. But let's go to the other end of the spectrum. Say that my methods only paralyze one competitor. Aren't I better off for getting rid of that one competitor?

This is likely because most people don't keep a running record of their trading activity, which means player testimony is the closest thing to evidence often seen. That said, I strongly recommend you read croda's trading blog (http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.uk/), particularly the earliest posts as he details his trades. During a mere ~60 minutes per day, he makes 2 billion ISK exclusively from trading in his first month (http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/one-month-old.html). How many month old characters do you know that have made that kind of money? Particularly from <30 hours of game play.


Sometimes you may find that a large undercut is exactly what the doctor ordered. Consumers may not be all too bothered by 1-5% price changes, but you'll draw attention to yourself with 20% changes. Hell, there have been trades where I've listed for half the price of the competition that are merrily 0.01ing each other way above a reasonable price.

Edit: I'm actually making a trade right now, selling my product for 2.3-3.0 million ISK/item but my competition are lisitng for 9,999,999.99 and 10 million. I'm not even trying to list close to their price because only one item shifts every couple of weeks at that price. I'd much rather shift one or two items per day at my price (even the one I'm asking is a massive markup).

Also, selling to other traders is a good thing. They do care about 1-5% price changes. These small shifts can easily make an item profitable and you may find them snapping the item up so they can move it to another region for sale over there.

As the price becomes more favourable, you're expanding the pool of people that will buy your wares, both traders and consumers alike.


And if the price isn't reasonably fair? Agressive undercutting works because it ensures the other party is always getting the best possible deal.


What if everyone 0.01s? It's hilarious when a price hasn't reacted to a market change and a bunch of idiots are 0.01ing each other at a price way above what most people consider to be acceptable. They're literally making something like 1 million ISK/hour on such trades yet there they sit, still mindlessly 0.01ing.

I'd much rather risk some of my trades dropping to unprofitable levels, but make a killing overall than waste my time with such trades.


I don't want to increase the longevity of the margin! Remember, by simply 0.01ing on a large profit margin, I'm leaving the door open, not only for the existing traders to keep 0.01ing me in response, but for new traders to join the fray. I don't want to sit on a trade, forced to update every 5 minutes because of the ridiculous amounts of competition that aren't leaving because the profit margin is too attractive. I want to list my item for sale, thenleave for a day or so, letting the money roll in on its own.