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Proteus: Gunfighter. Pls Advise

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Author
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#1 - 2014-03-18 02:15:55 UTC
I've been toying with the Railgun-Thorax in light of the post-Odessy 1.1 buff, and have been very happy with damage output. As a result, I've been tinkering with an Armored-Railgun fit for my Proteus for use in small gangs / fleets with armor-logi and anti-frigate support. Looking for ways to improve on what I've come up with so far (Trolls need not apply, kthxbai).

6x 250mm Railgun II's

Federation Navy Stasis Web
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gistum C-type MWD

Damage Control II
EANM II
Imperial Navy EANM
1600mm Rolled Tungsten
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II's

Anti-Explosive Pump II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Metastasis Adjuster II

Dissolution Sequencer (targeting range + sensor strength + cpu)
Dissonic Encoding Platform (Tracking + Damage + Falloff)
Augmented Plating
Localized Injectors
Powergrid Multiplier

(Requires a PG implant, even with Adv-Weapon-Upgrades-V, unless I back it down to a T2 800mm plate)

"No Drones!? Blasphemy!" I know, I prefer the tracking bonus and all 6 guns over drones which can get blapped and take forever to apply damage.

"Cap rig and no Cap Booster!? Don't get Neuted! Lolz" Yeah, that's the idea. Does best damage with Antimatter just outside of medium neut range, but within the 14km web range.

A long-web Loki would be an ideal wingman, I think, for keeping primary/secondary targets at proper ranges. Dual-rep active tank might be better solo (?) but meant to work with logi. Any advice on ways to improve this fit?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#2 - 2014-03-18 02:59:35 UTC
My first quick thought is:
Will a Brutix do more, for less?
More mids
More DPS (I think)
More tank
Drones
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#3 - 2014-03-18 03:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
RavenPaine wrote:
My first quick thought is:
Will a Brutix do more, for less?
More mids
More DPS (I think)
More tank
Drones


Certainly worth looking at. Even looked at the Navy Brutix, which is tankier, I'll grant you, but it lacks a lot of things the Proteus does well. Namely, BNI is slower, heavier, lacks both the falloff bonus and targeting range, the sensor strength and capacitor use bonuses, ect. It is certainly a cheaper option for bringing raw dps to the field though. Thanks for pointing it out.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2014-03-18 03:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Before you take out such an expensive piece of hardware, might I suggest using a [relatively] cheaper option?

[Exequror Navy Issue, Armor Railguns]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

Warrior II x5

Stats (with level 5 skills):
- moves ~1900 m/sec
- deals ~690 dps @ ~16km + 13km falloff (~610 dps without drones) (~355 dps @ ~56km + 13km falloff without drones using T2 Spike ammo)
- has ~25,000 effective hitpoints
- capacitor power lasts ~ 1.36 minutes without using the cap booster



Or... you can use my personal favorite!

[Exequror Navy Issue, HeroGanker]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior II x5


Stats (with level 5 skills):
- moves ~2300 m/sec
- deals ~550 dps @ ~16km + 18km falloff (~470 dps without drones) (~315 dps @ ~58km + 18km falloff without drones using T2 Spike ammo)
- has ~22,000 effective hitpoints
- capacitor power lasts ~ 1.31 minutes without using the cap booster

Basically you stay as far out of range as possible with this beast and pick things off that come towards you. Twisted


edit: Fixed the armor fit (I was wondering why the dps was so lackluster). And remember kids; don't drink and EFT warrior!! Oops
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#5 - 2014-03-18 03:59:33 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Before you take out such an expensive piece of hardware, might I suggest using a [relatively] cheaper option?

[Exequror Navy Issue, Armor Railguns]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

Warrior II x5

Stats (with level 5 skills):
- moves ~1900 m/sec
- deals ~450 dps @ ~16km + 13km falloff (~370 dps without drones) (~215 dps @ ~56km + 13km falloff without drones using T2 Spike ammo)
- has ~25,000 effective hitpoints
- capacitor power lasts ~ 1.36 minutes without using the cap booster




Are those Heat Sinks I see?
Denuo Secus
#6 - 2014-03-18 12:24:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:


*snip*

Or... you can use my personal favorite!

[Exequror Navy Issue, HeroGanker]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior II x5


Stats (with level 5 skills):
- moves ~2300 m/sec
- deals ~550 dps @ ~16km + 18km falloff (~470 dps without drones) (~315 dps @ ~58km + 18km falloff without drones using T2 Spike ammo)
- has ~22,000 effective hitpoints
- capacitor power lasts ~ 1.31 minutes without using the cap booster

Basically you stay as far out of range as possible with this beast and pick things off that come towards you. Twisted


How does it handle frigs? Srs question.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2014-03-18 14:00:41 UTC
regarding the OPs fit, i would think the entire purpose of a rail proteus would be to use the long point with the tackle sub.

no drones, no cap booster.

I suppose if you really want to fly a pimped railship, then proteus is the way to go. For general use in this role i would use a deimos.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-03-18 16:37:51 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

Are those Heat Sinks I see?


No, they are Heat Sink II's :P
Prolly ment to be magstabs though.
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-03-18 17:18:56 UTC
Drop the CC rig. You don't need to be anything like cap stable for PVP. Also, why the long point? Something like this would be a bit better imo

[Proteus, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive

250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II

Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating

Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#10 - 2014-03-18 18:55:20 UTC
Batelle wrote:
For general use in this role i would use a deimos.


This is pretty much spot on. The Deimos is a far more effective rail boat for small gang usage (because in a T3 fleet, who uses medium rails?). Also, if you have ISK to burn, then the Deimos can do some pretty awesome stuff. Here's the fit I use for small gang:

Deimos - Need Moar Tracking

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Shadow Serpentis Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II

250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#11 - 2014-03-18 20:07:03 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Batelle wrote:
For general use in this role i would use a deimos.


This is pretty much spot on. The Deimos is a far more effective rail boat for small gang usage (because in a T3 fleet, who uses medium rails?). Also, if you have ISK to burn, then the Deimos can do some pretty awesome stuff. Here's the fit I use for small gang:

Deimos - Need Moar Tracking

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Shadow Serpentis Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II

250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5



Actually Rail Proteus are part of a fleet doctrine used by some lowsec alliances to great effect. They are the ones that owned RvB and Brave Newbies in the last 'Ganked' event thingy.

About your Deimos fit, 250 rails are nice, but only a single AAR is a pretty small tank, I would go with 200mm rails with 2 T2 armor reps instead.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#12 - 2014-03-18 21:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Drop the CC rig. You don't need to be anything like cap stable for PVP so, why the long point? Something like this would be a bit better imo

[Proteus, New Setup 1]


See? This is useful, constructive advice. I already have a Proteus, money is spent, I'm just working on an alternate fit to serve a slightly different purpose, which is why tailorable Strategic Cruisers exist. Saying "fly something else" is pretty ignorant.

Thanks for that, Dash. I have the friction-extension sub and a scram currently loaded in Brawler mode. I should have specified that the intended role for this fit is to deal with an enemy that likes to field 5-6 HACs + ewar at once, in which case the sensor strength bonus was attractive. It's a hard choice against the long-scram bonus, though, which is why I thought of discus it here.
Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#13 - 2014-03-18 21:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Liam Inkuras wrote:


The Deimos is a far more effective rail boat for small gang usage (because in a T3 fleet, who uses medium rails?). Also, if you have ISK to burn, then the Deimos can do some pretty awesome stuff. Here's the fit I use for small gang:

Deimos - Need Moar Tracking:



Just stop. The only thing that fit is going to be good for, other than an expensive loss-mail, is using Spike to wh*re KM's. There's a reason the Deimos is known as the Die-Most with fits like that.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

In my case, using Spike to clear Frigates and Destroyers or defend my Logi at range is a nice bonus, but not it's primary purpose. Using Navy Antimatter within web range of HAC's was the stated goal. In which case, tracking kinda matters.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-03-19 00:11:25 UTC
250mm railguns have garbage tracking, so never go for any other subsystem than the dissonic thingamajig one. You need that 37.5% tracking bonus. Hell I'd even suggest going 2 magstabs and a TE instead of 3 magstabs.

I'd go for the point range sub too, I don't think ECM is prevalent enough (I see way more damps and TDs than ECM, but ofc ymmv) to make you need the added sensor strength and it's not like you'll be fighting at ranges where you need the added lock range either. Friction Extension is way more versatile. An alternate solution would be to just use a set of LG talons, that's like a 50m expenditure.

Drop the CCC as that other person mentioned. It doesn't help you against neuts and whatever cap instability you have without it can be fixed by micromanaging your modules a little.

If you plan to fly that with armor links, don't use two EANMs, they get a heavier stacking penalty with the resists ganglink - single eanm with passive explosive hardener and a trimark will give you better results. If you don't plan to fly that with armor links, then whatevs!

If you like your experience with that, try out the Legion equivalent with beams sometime. It's pretty awesome too.

No sig.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2014-03-19 01:32:19 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:


*snip*

Or... you can use my personal favorite!

[Exequror Navy Issue, HeroGanker]

(shield fit Exequror)


How does it handle frigs? Srs question.

At range... no problem. You just have to fly away from things at the correct angles (you are faster than most things already.... with links and implants you move at "stupid" speeds... just don't take any unnecessary risks).

Up close... forget it. Even with Javelin ammo's 20% tracking bonus you can't hit anything smaller than a cruiser.

Termy Rockling wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

Are those Heat Sinks I see?


No, they are Heat Sink II's :P
Prolly ment to be magstabs though.

I did. Edited my post. Oops
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#16 - 2014-03-19 03:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Fenris Orion wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:


The Deimos is a far more effective rail boat for small gang usage (because in a T3 fleet, who uses medium rails?). Also, if you have ISK to burn, then the Deimos can do some pretty awesome stuff. Here's the fit I use for small gang:

Deimos - Need Moar Tracking:



Just stop. The only thing that fit is going to be good for, other than an expensive loss-mail, is using Spike to wh*re KM's. There's a reason the Deimos is known as the Die-Most with fits like that.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

In my case, using Spike to clear Frigates and Destroyers or defend my Logi at range is a nice bonus, but not it's primary purpose. Using Navy Antimatter within web range of HAC's was the stated goal. In which case, tracking kinda matters.

You've just proven that you have no idea what you are talking about. That fit is a tried and true small gang kiting Deimos. You are supposed to stay at ~30km and wreck your opponents with antimatter or uranium. That fit has a tremendous tank, moreso than the ever-popular Kovorix style Nomen. I suggest you educate yourself on the current meta before bashing someone's post, because you are wrong in every sense.

Edit:
To please your stubborn mind, however, I have come up with an armor rail Proteus for you.

Proteus - Brick Shark

Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Corelum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors

Now before you go crying "waaaah no DCU" take a look at the armor resistance difference when using a DCU II, or a 2nd Imperial Navy EANM. The 2nd EANM gives superior resists to your armor, where your tank is. If you have qualms with the pimp, get implants, because all of that is needed for fitting purposes. The end-result of that fit is a 736dps monster with 135k EHP tank.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#17 - 2014-03-19 05:50:58 UTC
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
250mm railguns have garbage tracking, so never go for any other subsystem than the dissonic thingamajig one. You need that 37.5% tracking bonus. Hell I'd even suggest going 2 magstabs and a TE instead of 3 magstabs.

I'd go for the point range sub too, I don't think ECM is prevalent enough (I see way more damps and TDs than ECM, but ofc ymmv) to make you need the added sensor strength and it's not like you'll be fighting at ranges where you need the added lock range either. Friction Extension is way more versatile. An alternate solution would be to just use a set of LG talons, that's like a 50m expenditure.

Drop the CCC as that other person mentioned. It doesn't help you against neuts and whatever cap instability you have without it can be fixed by micromanaging your modules a little.

If you plan to fly that with armor links, don't use two EANMs, they get a heavier stacking penalty with the resists ganglink - single eanm with passive explosive hardener and a trimark will give you better results. If you don't plan to fly that with armor links, then whatevs!

If you like your experience with that, try out the Legion equivalent with beams sometime. It's pretty awesome too.


Another helpful piece of input without making my head hurt. Thanks!

I could drop the CCC for a trimark, for sure, and keep the anti-explosive pump ii to push just over 105k-ehp, but it cuts my cap life in half. 3m50s vs 9m20s for a trade of 15k-ehp. It's a hard choice, as I expect a fight with this thing to last a while.

As for electronics, the particular fleets I'm up against almost always bring a Griffin, Kitsune, or occasionally a Blackbird with them. And Spike M reaches out to 88km from this boat, so the added targeting range of the Dissolution Sequencer just gives me the option to reach out to full Spike range. Could be useful if an AF or Dessy manages to tackle my Logi 70km back from the main fight. Then again, 20km heated scram range is REALLY hard to argue against considering 90% or all HAC's are MWD fit.

All tough choices. That's what makes the T3 such a delimma: too many choices. Thanks for the input!
Aluka 7th
#18 - 2014-03-19 08:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Btw you don't use DCU II with Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating when u have 2-3 damage mods because even with stacking penalty you get better tank with another EANM or explosive hardener (if you have 2 eanms already). Never use rig slot for resist specific rig (its min/max math problem).
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#19 - 2014-03-19 09:56:47 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Before you take out such an expensive piece of hardware, might I suggest using a [relatively] cheaper option?

[Exequror Navy Issue, Armor Railguns]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

Warrior II x5


How is a near 400mil-Nexeq a *training vessel*? You can get a t2-rigged, pimped astarte for that sort of money.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#20 - 2014-03-19 22:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhir
So you are bashing the Deimos for being an expensive KM and horrible at killing stuff, while your own proteus suffers from the exact same things, but only worse? And then calls it a KM whoring ship while your proteus will not work witout any support. Lol, just lol.

The railgun deimos is great for solo and smallgang pvp. So dont bash it just because you don't understand nanoing.

Now I do think that Liam misunderstood you so his suggestion will not serve what you are looking for. His fit is great for smallgang pvp, but what you were looking for were a fit for t3 blobs with logi support.

But to come with some suggestions:

Since you will be in a fleet with loki support, you probably dont need the web. If stuff it close enough for you to web it you can't track it properly anyways so you will rely on other to do the webbing for you. So you can replace the web with a cap booster to counter neuts or a tracking computer to increase tracking / range.

If you are going to use it for lowsec you can switch to an AB if the entire fleet goes AHAC style instead. It makes it even harder to kill your t3s as it will be harder to apply dps to them.

And don't forget to plug that explosive resisthole.

Edit: look up the killboads some of the lowsec pirate alliances such as Suddenly Spaceships or Shadow Cartel. They use AB rail proteus for their t3 fleets.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

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