Missions & Complexes

Trying to figure out how this works.

* EDIT - to clarify
* Derived standing is a hit to another empire / faction when you do a mission that gives empire / faction standing.
* For example, if you do a story line mission for Amarr you will get a hit / transaction with Amarr -
* but you also gain a hit / standing with Minmatar, Gallente etc, these latter hits are "derived standings"


I read https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Storyline_mission

Which says "As the Minmatar republic is 'liked by' a factor of 8.00, this translates to 80% of the increase given to the Gallente Federation. Assuming that the Gallente Federation standings gain was 10%, the derived standings gain to the Minmatar Republic will be 8%. "

Which I understand as, if I gain 1.0% with Empire A, and the standing between empires is Empire B > Empire A = -5.0, then I will loose (0.5 * 1.0% =) 0.5% with Empire B - always, whenever I run a mission with a 1.0% standing increase to Empire A.


But, I am then provided with these numbers:

Mission gives 1.5% standing with Amarr (career agents mission step 10).

And just to make my headache bigger the Character has Social 5 (alright its a corp requirement, not just to punish me).

Minmatar > Amarr = -5.0

Ok so initial expectations would be social skill is good for you, so it increases magnitude of gains and decrease magnitude of losses (this is also the answer I got 5 of 5 times when asking various channels in game).

Initial expectations math: Character gains (1.25 * 1.5%) 1.875% with Amarr and loose (0.75 * (0.5 * 1.5%)) 0.5625% with Minmatar.

Actual numbers are 1.875% and -1.0004% ... Ok, so initial expectations was not how the loss works.


Second idea, Social is bad for you and increase magnitude of losses:

Second Idea Math: Character loose (1.25 * (0.5 * 1.5)) 0.9375%

Ok, that is also not it.


Third idea, social is really bad for you and the loss is based on your increased gain and then increased.

Third Idea Math: Character loose (1.25 * (0.5 * 1.875)) 1.17188%

Also not it.


No more ideas, and I then I am provided with this from the same character:

Next career agent done, 1.875% and -0.991%

Nowhere in anything I have read about derived modifications is a formula that should make it give a different number, so guessing the characters own standing is involved somewhere?

*EDIT* Changed set of Empire A and Empire B to Amarr and Minmatar.

Thanks but no.

That page is about how your actual standing is after you get a transaction with a certain value, for the size of the derived transactions it refers to the page I linked.

I'm not sure I understand your original post. Somewhere in there I got confused.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Standings#Standing_Relationships

Note that there are two tables, one the relationship, the other dervied standings modifier.

The link to the math in Dexingtons' post above is correct. The original post you linked looks like maybe it is incorrect. It seems to equate the standings relationship with the derived standings modifier. I'm not certain though, maffs is hard.

You got it right. Your current standing towards the faction affects how much you gain or lose.

From the eveonline wiki

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Standings_mechanics?_ga=1.49347174.1311948274.1382411830#The_Math_2
The Math

Increase standing changes are derived as a percentage change of the difference between current "true" standing (unmodified) and 10.



The equation:
•ns=((10-s)*i)+s


where:
ns=New standing
s=Standing
i=Increase percentage in decimal form


For instance a 3% increase would work out the following way in each situation:
-10 standing: 10-(-10)=20. 20*0.03=0.6. -10+0.6= -9.4
0 standing: 10-0=10. 10*0.03=0.3. 0+0.3= 0.3
5 standing: 10-5=5. 5*0.03=0.15. 5+0.15= 5.15



Decrease standing changes work the same way. Except the endpoint is -10.



The equation:
•ns=((-10-s)*d)+s


where:
ns=New standing
s=Standing
d=Decrease percentage in decimal form


For instance a 3% decrease would work out the following way in each situation:
10 standing: -20*0.03 + 10 = 9.4
5 standing: -15*0.03 + 5 = 4.55
0 standing: -10*0.03 + 0 = -0.3
-5 standing: -5*0.03 + -5 = -5.15


So the higher you are with a faction the smaller the gains and the lower you are with a faction the smaller the losses. The reverse is also true.

Hope that helps

-J

Some numbers:

Connections IV, Social IV, Diplomacy 0.

About to accept Cashflow for Capsuleers 10 of 10 (military career, Joas Alathema) (not in fleet)

Standings:
Amarr Empire > Velenia Ankletickler : 1.62 (raised from 0.03)
Caldari State > Velenia Ankletickler : -0.24
Gallente Federation > Velenia Ankletickler : 2.17 (raised from 0.68)
Minmatar Republic > Velenia Ankletickler : 2.01 (raised from 0.49)

Royal Amarr Institute > Velenia Ankletickler : 2.37 (raised from 0.91)

Joas Alathema > Velenia Ankletickler : 3.70 (raised from 2.50)

---

Hits:
Amarr Empire : 1.8%
Caldari State : 1.2901%
Gallente Federation : -0.3848
Minmatar Republic : -0.9441 %

Royal Amarr Institute : 5.1429%

Joas Alathema : No hit

---

Standings after:
Amarr Empire > Velenia Ankletickler : 1.77 (raised from 0.21)
Caldari State > Velenia Ankletickler : -0.11
Gallente Federation > Velenia Ankletickler : 2.14 (raised from 0.65)
Minmatar Republic > Velenia Ankletickler : 1.93 (raised from 0.39)

Royal Amarr Institute > Velenia Ankletickler : 2.76 (raised from 1.38)

Joas Alathema > Velenia Ankletickler : 3.70 (raised from 2.50)

Will update with a couple missions more in near future.

Exactly.



So far we can agree, just a little problem with social being a penalty and not a bonus when you apply it that way - but that is a topic for a Social thread not this one.



Err sorry mister superknowledge teacher, but before you leave - how come the rounding you describe keep changing in size for every mission - in the same direction? As is described in the bottom of the first post in this thread.

Social skill does not seem to apply to all missions, the last two storyline missions i have done was Record Cleaning and Shipyard Theft.

The both give 30% corp standing and 15% faction standing.

Before the missions i had 7.26% faction standing, and after the missions 7.67%, which is a exact increase of 15%.

((10 - 7.26) * 0.15) + 7.26 = 7.671

Social skill works on the hit, so your 30% was 24% before Social V was applied. (if it was applied, since I don't know the mission I don't know for sure that the actual reward is 24%, but this is how Social works - tested on the career agents - as you can see my social IV hits are also 1.8 where the corpies with social V get 1.875 hits).

Well then figure it out for yourself

edit: To clarify, these aren't "my equations." they 're all taken from information gathered from players doing exactly what you're doing now. The derived standings table in particular was created by aggregating mission standings data. It's as close as anyone has ever come over the past 10 years. The formulas work well enough in most cases. Given the imprecise nature of the endeavor and no way to verify the formulas, discrepancies in the millionths are inevitable. If you can do better than players past at figuring it out, by all means, show us the way.

Maybe it's capped. The highest corp standing increase I've ever gotten was also 30%. The next highest I can find (I quit the game for awhile, so my history is only recent) is 22.9617%. Perhaps there are modifiers for max standing gain/min standing gain.