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Solo PVP among larger class ships?

First post
Author
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#101 - 2014-03-19 11:36:46 UTC
Might want to check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk&feature=youtu.be

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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#102 - 2014-03-19 11:38:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Show me where I said, or even remotely implied, that battleships or even battlecruisers, should be able to force a frigate into a non-consensual engagement.

As an aside, ironically, the only ships a battleship CAN force into a non-consensual engagement other than a BC are frigates :)

If you weren't even remotely implying it, why would you even mention it? Why are you specifically looking for frig kills if you maintain that BSes shouldn't be designed to fight frigs? So what is your complaint? BSes can't engage ships below BCs, but they shouldn't be be able to engage frigs. So if BSes could engage cruisers, you'd be happy? Shouldn't you be checking his KB for cruiser kills then?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#103 - 2014-03-19 11:43:59 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.
Kyperion
#104 - 2014-03-19 11:46:07 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
CCP should rename Battleships.

New players get far too obsessed by them.



I was guilty of this.

They should rename them "Warbarges"

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-03-19 11:51:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was clearly made. A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.

If you can't fathom the point from my original post then its not my points that are lacking.


Ignoring the knee-jerk reactionary 'troll' comment, I'm getting the part where you think 106mm is a locking time instead of a scan resolution. I get that you're confused about the purpose of a battleship. What I don't get is why you would make this point if it was anything other than complaining. Why SHOULD a battleship be able to lock things faster? You say you're making a point, but you're not providing clarity on the follow through or destination of this point, or why this point matters.

So let's bottom line it, shall we? Because, quite frankly, you're talking to people here with far more battleship experience than you so, whatever your problem is, I'm sure we can clear it up.

Provided you're not just trolling, of course. Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2014-03-19 11:52:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#107 - 2014-03-19 11:55:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. .

derp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2014-03-19 11:55:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.


Nah, its a battleship. Same as the blackops, pirate faction and navy BS. Its one of the 3 raven hulls all of which have become amazing hulls and possibly the most adaptable BS in the game at the moment.
Kyperion
#109 - 2014-03-19 11:56:38 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was clearly made. A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.

If you can't fathom the point from my original post then its not my points that are lacking.


Ignoring the knee-jerk reactionary 'troll' comment, I'm getting the part where you think 106mm is a locking time instead of a scan resolution. I get that you're confused about the purpose of a battleship. What I don't get is why you would make this point if it was anything other than complaining. Why SHOULD a battleship be able to lock things faster? You say you're making a point, but you're not providing clarity on the follow through or destination of this point, or why this point matters.

So let's bottom line it, shall we? Because, quite frankly, you're talking to people here with far more battleship experience than you so, whatever your problem is, I'm sure we can clear it up.

Provided you're not just trolling, of course. Blink



Disregarding anything else.... I think it would be cool to have a Battleship hull with the concept of ye ole destroyers......

8 bonused frigate sized weapons, spewing Rockets like Flak batteries, with the rockets reaching out to 30k or somesuch

Mainly because rockets are bloody amazing to watch.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-03-19 11:57:24 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was clearly made. A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.

If you can't fathom the point from my original post then its not my points that are lacking.


Ignoring the knee-jerk reactionary 'troll' comment, I'm getting the part where you think 106mm is a locking time instead of a scan resolution. I get that you're confused about the purpose of a battleship. What I don't get is why you would make this point if it was anything other than complaining. Why SHOULD a battleship be able to lock things faster? You say you're making a point, but you're not providing clarity on the follow through or destination of this point, or why this point matters.

So let's bottom line it, shall we? Because, quite frankly, you're talking to people here with far more battleship experience than you so, whatever your problem is, I'm sure we can clear it up.

Provided you're not just trolling, of course. Blink

EvE is supposed to be a non-consentual PVP game.

Battleships are no good solo because they lack the ability to force smaller ships into engagements. Any engagement that a battleship enters into consensually is usually going to be one the opponent feels they are capable of winning easily.

A lock time based on the scan resolution of 106mm is about 150mm short of what is required to lock down a BC before it can run away.

Obviously my point is that its much too slow.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2014-03-19 12:00:37 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. .

derp

I'm correct. Marauders are not battleships they're marauders. They're simply based on a battleship hull. In the same way that T3's are not cruisers, they're strategic cruisers.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#112 - 2014-03-19 12:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. .

derp

I'm correct. Marauders are not battleships they're marauders. They're simply based on a battleship hull. In the same way that T3's are not cruisers, they're strategic cruisers.

ftfy
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2014-03-19 12:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My point was clearly made. A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.

If you can't fathom the point from my original post then its not my points that are lacking.


Ignoring the knee-jerk reactionary 'troll' comment, I'm getting the part where you think 106mm is a locking time instead of a scan resolution. I get that you're confused about the purpose of a battleship. What I don't get is why you would make this point if it was anything other than complaining. Why SHOULD a battleship be able to lock things faster? You say you're making a point, but you're not providing clarity on the follow through or destination of this point, or why this point matters.

So let's bottom line it, shall we? Because, quite frankly, you're talking to people here with far more battleship experience than you so, whatever your problem is, I'm sure we can clear it up.

Provided you're not just trolling, of course. Blink

EvE is supposed to be a non-consentual PVP game.

Battleships are no good solo because they lack the ability to force smaller ships into engagements. Any engagement that a battleship enters into consensually is usually going to be one the opponent feels they are capable of winning easily.

A lock time based on the scan resolution of 106mm is about 150mm short of what is required to lock down a BC before it can run away.

Obviously my point is that its much too slow.


So you want it to be faster, capable of catching everything to make it viable as a solo ship. The problem with that is, you do that, and it becomes the ONLY ship viable for solo, because if you think of it, nothing is viable against everything solo, and that's the way it's supposed to be.

By your logic...

EVE is supposed to be a non-consensual pvp game.

Frigates are no good solo because they lack the dps to make non-consensual pvp against a supercap anything other than a suicidal proposition. Any engagement that a frigate enters into consensually is usually going to be against the odds, outmatched in firepower and unable to produce the dps necessary to present enough of a threat.

Obviously, my point is frigates just don't hit hard enough.

See where I'm going with this? You can't have a ship that does everything, sorry. It doesn't work like that. Battleships serve a purpose, and I don't know what your problem is but I've flown battleships and forced enough engagements with plenty of smaller ships. Look for the Omen vs my Nightmare on my KB, for example. It might not be a frigate, but if I was going after frigates, I wouldn't use a battleship. Just like if I'm going after supercaps, I don't use frigates.

Unless, of course, you're in a fleet. EVE isn't just a non-consensual pvp game (that's a misnomer, btw, all pvp is consensual because the moment you undock you give consent), it's also a multiplayer game. Battleships serve their purpose and they serve it well. The way I see it, the bigger the ship, the more support it's likely to need from smaller ones. This is good, because it keeps everyone from just flying the bigger ships and it provides the game not just with variety, but a good degree of balance.

What you're saying is you think battleships need faster locking times. Fine, your point is made, but you haven't justified why, not without giving good reason why a battleship should suddenly be the go-to vessel for everything in PVP.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2014-03-19 12:07:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I'm correct. Marauders are not battleships they're marauders. They're simply based on a battleship hull. In the same way that T3's are not cruisers, they're strategic cruisers.


they're strategic cruisers

Yea, they are cruisers, overpowered but still cruisers.

Marauders are still battleship hulls, they are just specialized, like E-war frigs, Force recons (cruisers) etc.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-03-19 12:08:58 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.


OP asked for solo pvp among larger ship classes. I do believe, like your mom, marauders would be considered a larger ship class.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2014-03-19 12:10:41 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.


OP asked for solo pvp among larger ship classes. I do believe, like your mom, marauders would be considered a larger ship class.

Yawn.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2014-03-19 12:12:58 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:


The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

The golem is not a battleship. Its a marauder. The difference between Golem and Raven is about the same as the difference between Proteus and Thorax.


OP asked for solo pvp among larger ship classes. I do believe, like your mom, marauders would be considered a larger ship class.

Yawn.


These kinds of responses are the spiritual text-based equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

And you use them often.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2014-03-19 12:13:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I'm correct. Marauders are not battleships they're marauders. They're simply based on a battleship hull. In the same way that T3's are not cruisers, they're strategic cruisers.


they're strategic cruisers

Yea, they are cruisers, overpowered but still cruisers.

Marauders are still battleship hulls, they are just specialized, like E-war frigs, Force recons (cruisers) etc.

They're not cruisers. They're Strategic Cruisers. Trying to pretend they're anything that remotely resembles a cruiser is idiotic.

Likewise the Marauder does not even remotely act like a standard battleships. Its a cross between a dread and a battleship at the very least.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-03-19 12:14:20 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I'm correct. Marauders are not battleships they're marauders. They're simply based on a battleship hull. In the same way that T3's are not cruisers, they're strategic cruisers.


they're strategic cruisers

Yea, they are cruisers, overpowered but still cruisers.

Marauders are still battleship hulls, they are just specialized, like E-war frigs, Force recons (cruisers) etc.

They're not cruisers. They're Strategic Cruisers. Trying to pretend they're anything that remotely resembles a cruiser is idiotic.

Likewise the Marauder does not even remotely act like a standard battleships. Its a cross between a dread and a battleship at the very least.


Yep, you're either trolling or you really think you know everything there is to know about EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2014-03-19 12:14:25 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


These kinds of responses are the spiritual text-based equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

And you use them often.

Likewise so are 'You're mom" insults. If you can't act at least as mature as my 7 year old I'm going to ignore you.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)