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Let's give the gankers what they want

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-03-15 07:42:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Except completely dehumanize the people they're stealing from to disable their self-condemnation of their immoral acts.

No, playing a game does not dehumanise anyone, and being able to adjust your morality to fit the context is a sign of health.


Playing a game does not dehumanize anyone, correct. But dehumanizing people with your actions while playing the game is just that, and a sign of mental sickness. Choosing to believe that just because that real person playing the game isn't worthy of respect because he's on the internet is moral disengagement.
Lady Areola Fappington
#42 - 2014-03-15 07:42:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
This is true, because both types of pirates, EvE and somali ship pirates, are bad people who do bad things against other real people.

Take your medication. No, EVE pirates don't do bad things against real people.


Except completely dehumanize the people they're stealing from to disable their self-condemnation of their immoral acts.


I know that no one will ever be able to convince you that you are wrong. That doesn't relieve those of us who believe in the truth for posting the truth however.

The truth is that anyone who believes that a video game player roleplaying a pirate (in a game that celebrates in-game piracy) is in anyway equal to a real life murderer and theif (pirate) is, by definition, a Bad person IRL.

I deal with real bad people IRL and they all have one thing in common: They think they are in someway superior to others despite the fact that they aren't. It's probably why i find your (unreasonable) thinking so....familiar.



You can't argue with em Jenn, it's confirmed. Work as an ER nurse in a busy hospital located in the poor area of town....doesn't matter. If you explode spaceships it makes you a bad person.

Highly decorated, disabled war veteran, who brought home many wounded troops....disregard that. Exploding unarmed ships for economic gain in a video game makes you a "sociopath".



The funny part here is, Jenn is a pretty big PVE carebearin' around with running missions kinda person. If I caught Jenn in-game, hells yeah I go for a gank. Yet...I consider Jenn at least a passing acquaintance. If I ever linked up with him RL, I'd buy him a beer.

Real Live vs. Video Game, kids.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Nikolai Vlad
Saint's Industries
#43 - 2014-03-15 07:48:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
If the point of EVE is only PVP and all other activities are boring subhuman tasks....


I just want to highlight this little bit of butt hurt.

You can tell 2 things from looking into the history of my 'pvp main'. One is I pretty much suck at PVP and two is that I don't pvp much now adays (though roaming with EVe-Radio guys and Sir Squeebles is a lot of fun lol I contribute to my alliance in other ways).

What I HAVE been doing is ungodly loads of PVE since day one (June 21, 2007). I mean a LOT of PVE. If serps, sanshas, Blood Raiders, Guristas, Angels, Rogue Drones and Sleepers were real people, the U.N. would be looking for me to try me for War Crimes in The Hague.

No one ever called what I was doing "sub-human" nor have I ever been ganked, mainly because while I was enjoying my pve I remembered at all times I was still playing a pvp game and didn't complain about people trying to do pvp in a pvp game. I've earned the respect of many a failed ganker/pirate by being a mature adult about things.

Quote:

..... Oh wait, they only want to shoot targets, not hunt prey capable of being predators.


That's right. Because they are pirates. You can't expect video game pirates to fight fair any more than you can expect Somali Pirates IRL to attack a United States Carrier Battle Group. Trying to call them video game cowards for role-playing pirates correctly is the only subhuman thing I see here.



I'm a carebear for the most part, but I'd be the first to admit; spot on!

Gankers love tears and expensive kills. Man up and don't give them tears, and the mechanics allow you to counter gankers. Learn them. Use them!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#44 - 2014-03-15 07:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Before the DErailment goes too far, to the OP, I couldn't agree more, give the gankers exactly what you think they want.

Band together with other miners, get in some combat ships and declare war.

Go and fight them. You'll lose a lot of ships (because of experience and skill focus), but you might have a lot of fun.

Gankers are already going to lose their ship, so ship loss isn't important to them. If you can take the attitude that ship loss isn't important to you either, then you might just be the next RvB in the form of GvM.

Tanking ships is the common advice and I totally agree with it. For the solo highsec player, tanking is the best way to beat the gankers. If everyone did it, then the gankers would just figure out a new way to gank, but even that would be good.

Don't complain about needing more tools as you already have access to exactly the same tools used to gank you. More tools isn't what's needed.

A greater tolerance for risk and acceptance that every time you lose a ship it is 100% your own fault are the two things that will better prepare you to avoid being ganked.

Edit: Of course, declaring war on gankers means you have to adjust you play style, which you may not like, especially as everyone can choose what they like in the game and PvE is just a valid form of play as PvP. The above is just a suggestion. You don't need to go declare war and start pvping. However you do need to accept responsibility for the choice and plan accordingly.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#45 - 2014-03-15 08:08:00 UTC
Eve is all about balance, if you beef up mining ships to have thicker armour, hulls and more offensive slots there will come a point when they stop being mining barges and turn into warships. I don't mind this as such as long as battle barges have progressively smaller ore and cargo bays.

Battleships have small cargo bays compared to their actual sizes as the machinery of war is bulky and requires relatively easy access to repair putting internal space on a premium.

So go ahead put 8 high slots on a barge provided you are happy to accept a 500m3 ore bay and 125m3 cargo bay I won't mind. Performance has to be paid for somewhere.

Finally if miners could fight back against gankers they wouldn't get ganked. This tells you more about gankers than it does about miners.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2014-03-15 08:11:56 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Playing a game does not dehumanize anyone, correct. But dehumanizing people with your actions
…isn't what happening. Instead, it's people playing against other people in a game — being able to separate game from reality is a very healthy characteristic and is exactly what keeps anyone from dehumanising the other players. Your inability to do so is yet another of your pathologies.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-03-15 08:12:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Playing a game does not dehumanize anyone, correct. But dehumanizing people with your actions
…isn't what happening. Instead, it's people playing against other people in a game — being able to separate game from reality is a very healthy characteristic and is exactly what keeps anyone from dehumanising the other players. Your inability to do so is yet another of your pathologies.


A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2014-03-15 08:14:41 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Playing a game does not dehumanize anyone, correct. But dehumanizing people with your actions
…isn't what happening. Instead, it's people playing against other people in a game — being able to separate game from reality is a very healthy characteristic and is exactly what keeps anyone from dehumanising the other players. Your inability to do so is yet another of your pathologies.


A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.


You and Tippia are both in the wrong thread.

This isn't a silly discussion about morality. That's in every other thread.

It's a discussion about mechanics to beat gankers by beefing up industrials/mining barges (which would then perhaps become the ganking ship of choice).
Kyperion
#49 - 2014-03-15 08:16:37 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is all about balance, if you beef up mining ships to have thicker armour, hulls and more offensive slots there will come a point when they stop being mining barges and turn into warships. I don't mind this as such as long as battle barges have progressively smaller ore and cargo bays.

Battleships have small cargo bays compared to their actual sizes as the machinery of war is bulky and requires relatively easy access to repair putting internal space on a premium.

So go ahead put 8 high slots on a barge provided you are happy to accept a 500m3 ore bay and 125m3 cargo bay I won't mind. Performance has to be paid for somewhere.

Finally if miners could fight back against gankers they wouldn't get ganked. This tells you more about gankers than it does about miners.


Could come in the form of not possibly being cap stable unless boosted, or as you say, ore bays.... Could do it as a variation of the Bastion or Seige Modules, where the ship loses all capability to mine while in combat mode, and has to stay and fight it out.


Any number of viable and exciting ways to let the Miners have teeth
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2014-03-15 08:16:51 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.
Ok. We're going down this route again. Any hesitation or evasion on your part will mean that you agree with me in every way and there is no way for you to later lie and try to change your mind. Ok? Ok. Let's go.

When you bluff in poker, does this make you a bad person and a consummate liar in real life? Yes or no.
Nikolai Vlad
Saint's Industries
#51 - 2014-03-15 08:17:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Before the DErailment goes too far, to the OP, I couldn't agree more, give the gankers exactly what they want.

Band together with other miners, get in some combat ships and declare war.

Go and fight them. You'll lose a lot of ships (because of experience and skill focus), but you might have a lot of fun.

Gankers are already going to lose their ship, so ship loss isn't important to them. If you can take the attitude that ship loss isn't important to you either, then you might just be the next RvB in the form of GvM.

Tanking ships is the common advice and I totally agree with it. For the solo highsec player, tanking is the best way to beat the gankers. If everyone did it, then the gankers would just figure out a new way to gank, but even that would be good.

Don't complain about needing more tools as you already have access to exactly the same tools used to gank you. More tools isn't what's needed.

A greater tolerance for risk and acceptance that every time you lose a ship it is 100% your own fault are the two things that will better prepare you to avoid being ganked.

Edit: Of course, declaring war on gankers means you have to adjust you play style, which you may not like, especially as everyone can choose what they like in the game and PvE is just a valid form of play as PvP. The above is just a suggestion. You don't need to go declare war and start pvping. However you do need to accept responsibility for the choice and plan accordingly.


Well said, one thing anybody should get drilled into their head when start playing eve, is that there is a counter to everything.

Too many people try to compare eve to real life in "security" standard. Ronald Reagan was surrounded by secret service. He still got shot! Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to security.

Eve requires you to adjust to different situations and requirements.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-03-15 08:19:41 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:


It's a discussion about mechanics to beat gankers by beefing up industrials/mining barges (which would then perhaps become the ganking ship of choice).


Look, I don't know what thread you're reading but no one is talking about oil changes, belt replacement, engine blocs, pistons, spark plugs, or all that other nonsense that goes into cars.

No one, absolutely no one is talking about "mechanics", and if they were, I don't think a guy wielding a wrench would have any chance against a guy flying a space ship.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#53 - 2014-03-15 08:21:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.
Ok. We're going down this route again. Any hesitation or evasion on your part will mean that you agree with me in every way and there is no way for you to later lie and try to change your mind. Ok? Ok. Let's go.

When you bluff in poker, does this make you a bad person and a consummate liar in real life? Yes or no.

Lets be honest Tippia and not self delusional.

Some people who gank do attempt to dehumanise the player of their target as a whiner, looser, botter, afk'er, n00b or other such justification which makes it 'fair' for them to gank that particular person rather than other people. Those sort of excuses are dehumanisation.

The ganker who just says 'Yea, you looked handy, it's part of the game, and I enjoy the lols'. Sure, he doesn't dehumanise people. (& some of his targets may turn around and try and dehumanise him back also, that I acknowledge).

But we can't pretend it doesn't happen at all.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2014-03-15 08:23:14 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lets be honest Tippia and not self delusional.
That would work if I was talking to an honest and non-deluded person. Unfortunately, in his case, I'm not.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-03-15 08:27:06 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.
Ok. We're going down this route again. Any hesitation or evasion on your part will mean that you agree with me in every way and there is no way for you to later lie and try to change your mind. Ok? Ok. Let's go.

When you bluff in poker, does this make you a bad person and a consummate liar in real life? Yes or no.

Lets be honest Tippia and not self delusional.

Some people who gank do attempt to dehumanise the player of their target as a whiner, looser, botter, afk'er, n00b or other such justification which makes it 'fair' for them to gank that particular person rather than other people. Those sort of excuses are dehumanisation.

The ganker who just says 'Yea, you looked handy, it's part of the game, and I enjoy the lols'. Sure, he doesn't dehumanise people. (& some of his targets may turn around and try and dehumanise him back also, that I acknowledge).

But we can't pretend it doesn't happen at all.


Meh, just let him ramble on. Ever since I completely smashed him in a thread that got deleted he's been super butthurt. I didn't mean to upset him, like he's trying to do to me which proves he's a nutcase sadist who enjoys trying to insult and anger people for his personal amusement which he is demonstrating with his continuous insults of me.

I was just proving him wrong because he was wrong. And then he started getting all psycho, like you see here.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#56 - 2014-03-15 08:28:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lets be honest Tippia and not self delusional.

Some people who gank do attempt to dehumanise the player of their target as a whiner, looser, botter, afk'er, n00b or other such justification which makes it 'fair' for them to gank that particular person rather than other people. Those sort of excuses are dehumanisation.

The ganker who just says 'Yea, you looked handy, it's part of the game, and I enjoy the lols'. Sure, he doesn't dehumanise people. (& some of his targets may turn around and try and dehumanise him back also, that I acknowledge).

But we can't pretend it doesn't happen at all.

The solution to that is not to feed them after the gank.

Just reship and start again.

All too often, the player who has been ganked has an emotional response that results in some truly vile rants in local and by evemail.

Some of those people show that they may have some real issues for the things they respond with.

But, by not feeding the ganker with a response after the gank, for those disturbed gankers (only a small percentage, just the same as there are some disturbed non-gankers in the community), that will remove a large part of the satisfaction they get.
Kyperion
#57 - 2014-03-15 08:29:50 UTC
On a side note, do women even play eve, every female avatar I have ever seen has been referred to by everyone else as 'he' What?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2014-03-15 08:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
Meh, just let him ramble on. Ever since I completely smashed him in a thread that got deleted he's been super butthurt.
Yes, it certainly didn't have anything to do with you expressing approval of my death at all… liar.

Quote:
I was just proving him wrong because he was wrong.
Yeah, no. That never actually happened outside of your head. Liar.

Oh, and I can't help noticing you haven't answered the very very very very simple question:
When you bluff in poker, does this make you a bad person and a consummate liar in real life? Yes or no.
Kyperion
#59 - 2014-03-15 08:31:18 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lets be honest Tippia and not self delusional.

Some people who gank do attempt to dehumanise the player of their target as a whiner, looser, botter, afk'er, n00b or other such justification which makes it 'fair' for them to gank that particular person rather than other people. Those sort of excuses are dehumanisation.

The ganker who just says 'Yea, you looked handy, it's part of the game, and I enjoy the lols'. Sure, he doesn't dehumanise people. (& some of his targets may turn around and try and dehumanise him back also, that I acknowledge).

But we can't pretend it doesn't happen at all.

The solution to that is not to feed them after the gank.

Just reship and start again.

All too often, the player who has been ganked has an emotional response that results in some truly vile rants in local and by evemail.

Some of those people show that they may have some real issues for the things they respond with.

But, by not feeding the ganker with a response after the gank, for those disturbed gankers (only a small percentage, just the same as there are some disturbed non-gankers in the community), that will remove a large part of the satisfaction they get.


No, the solution is for the miner be able to ******* shoot back and have a decent chance to plant one 'between the eyes' ... with his own ******* gun
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-03-15 08:31:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
A game where you can make the choice how you wish to play and interact with others.
Ok. We're going down this route again. Any hesitation or evasion on your part will mean that you agree with me in every way and there is no way for you to later lie and try to change your mind. Ok? Ok. Let's go.

When you bluff in poker, does this make you a bad person and a consummate liar in real life? Yes or no.


In the casino of EvE, since EvE has multiple options regarding how you wish to "gamble", not just poker, but slots, craps, roullete, and black jack, if I were to choose to play poker and someone bluffed me, I could not hold a grudge against him because I chose to play Poker in the Casino of Eve.

But in the Casino of EvE (sandbox of EvE), I would avoid the Poker Table and play the nickle slots (mining). Nickle slots being a possibility since it exists, just like poker, here in the Casino of EvE.

But if that Poker player within this Casino of EvE(sandbox of eve) decided to come to my slot machine and lie to me saying he would give me $20 if I gave him $10, and he did not, I could label him as a liar for "bluffing" when I just wanted to play the slots and he imposed his poker game on me.

In this Grand Casino of EvE

#smokednext